11 Russian Chords

Hello everyone,

 

I'm Dan from Kent in England.  I'm new here and I'm going through Level 1. The quality of information and the teaching methods are superb - just what I was looking for.

 

I have two related  questions:

1) why are the 11 Russian chords those kinds of chords? Why are they major, minor, dominant sevens and diminished sevens? Why not major sevens and minor sevens for example?

2) Why those particular chords? For example, (in C) why not Csus2? Why D7?

 

I feel like I'm missing something obvious (a music theory rule? a developing finger pattern I'm not getting?). That said, I wont be too surprised if the answer is "that's just the way it is"... 

 

I suppose what's at the bottom of my questions is what am I trying to learn or develop? Finger technique, understanding of theory, something else?

 

Sorry, that was a third group of questions! I love playing these chords by the way, just not sure what benefit I should be trying to derive.

 

Many thanks if you can point me to the right information.

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  • Great question Dan!

    The simple answer is that these are the 11 most popular chords found in classical music, and the most important ones to know (they appear all over the place!)

    For example, minor 7ths, major 7ths are chords that do appear, but are admittedly much more infrequent than dominant or diminished 7th chords. 

     

    What we're trying to learn is a familiarity with these very common chords, immediacy of recognization, and automatic fingering associations! It helps to know these chords inside and out from theory perspective, but your fingers should also know them like the back of your hand!

     

    Hope this is helpful!

    Like 4
    • You can always add in more chords to work on! But this is generally thought of as the "base line starting point" that most people should work through!

      Like 3
    • Dominic Cheli Yes very helpful Dominic, thank you.

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  • As a composition student who has had to study so many scores across the centuries from baroque to classical to modern film scores, I'd say just like Dominic points out those chords are merely statistically common in the classical era of piano music, up until the later romantics like Debussy and Ravel who began to introduce a little bit of major & minor 7ths (and 9ths and so on). In the vast majority of music up until the late 19th century those were the types of chords you would encounter with any frequency – and any others (such as sus2 or maj7ths) you might see sometimes but they were often considered passing harmonies in their day, rather than complete chordal harmonies (for example I've spotted major 7ths in Bach and Beethoven but they wouldn't have thought of them as a maj7 chord, since that 7th was typically used functionally as a passing tone, whereas a lot of modern music in fact resolves to this chord!).

    However, as someone living in the modern era I'm influenced also influenced by jazz, rnb/funk/soul, pop, etc. When I started doing the 11 chords exercise I decided to adapt it to include every variation of 7ths as used in jazz, sus chords and extended harmonies. However, after awhile I discovered this practice routine turned into 30+ chords! The variations can grow exponentially. In many ways I think it's helpful to remember these exercises are part of your toolkit, effective as warmups or arpeggio study – but not really worth overwhelming yourself with every possibility during every practice. Keep it simple to what works best for you.

    Therefore I recommend to consider the type of music you are most interested in playing, and perhaps add to the exercise based around that. For example, if you are more interested in later 19th century and jazz piano music, you could add the maj & min7ths since they appear more frequently starting around then. Alternatively, if you're working on repertoire that has a lot of a certain type of harmony, you might consider adding that to your routine temporarily. But like Dominic says, the 11 are a good baseline that appear in almost all music (fully diminished chords appear less frequently in the modern era, but they are still used a lot in jazz in different ways)!

    Like 3
    • Jonathan Wing Great answer!

      Totally agree 100%

       

      30 chords wow! Sounds like quite the workout! 

      Like 1
    • Dominic Cheli yes, although it was very short lived – and mostly the result of analyzing and itemizing every possibility (once I started adding in extended tertian chords with 9ths, as well as various suspensions on the 7ths... I think I ran a rough calculation and it can easily turn into over 50 once you start getting into that). I did this all in a spreadsheet which is where I keep my practice journal and create routines. One of those ideas that seemed great on paper but in reality is not only overwhelming, but also limited in its reward (unless all you want to do on piano is play arpeggios for hours a day lol). It was interesting to list it all out but for all practical purposes I think it's better to keep it simple – and practice those fancier chords in the repertoire it may appear!

      When I'm short on time in fact I go simpler, my typical routine is just 7 arps focused only on triads. The triads make an appearance with a greater frequency than 7th chords, and I dunno if it's just me and my hands but I find triad arpeggios to be more difficult and thus requiring more maitenance than 7th chords - probably because there is a greater leap between each position when you don't have the 7th (which for me adds a little bit of navigation guidance to pivot on!). Anyway 🤓

      Like 1
    • Jonathan Wing Thank you very much for taking the time to reply like this. As it happens, as poor a player as I am at the moment, I started throwing in Maj7s etc almost right away. I think what I will do though is stick with those original 11 chords for a while until I really get it. I am more familiar with 7s and 9s than I am with Dominant 7s (hope I'm getting the terminology right) and for me to immerse myself in the classical world will be a completely new experience for me. I am very far away from that world - when I hear a diminished chord I think of George Harrison. He used them a lot.  Anyway, there is much for me to learn in those chords.

      Like 1
    • Dan McCarthy Yeah, I totally understand that as someone with an interest in diverse musical styles! Maj7s are a great chord and while you're unlikely to encounter than much in classical repertoire, if you think you'll be also be playing jazz or other 20th century styles, you may want to add the maj7 and min7's into your routine - because they definitely appear a lot in jazz and also various eras of Pop (I've heard them a lot also in showtunes and 60s pop onward. I know both Elton John and the Beatles used them quite a bit).

      Speaking of the Beatles, that's a good point about Harrison's use of the diminished chord. But definitely don't be shy with Dom7s – they are everywhere in modern music and The Beatles used them alllll the time too, which is likely something they drew more from the blues than classical. The blues' harmonic language is heavily built on the Dom7, in ways that classical wasn't – classical composers used them with clear functionality as a pull to whatever chord is a 5th below. For example in C major, the V7 (G7), but also that D7 you might play using C as the root in the 11 chords, that can act as a secondary dominant to the V chord (G being a 5th below D). This is a move you'll encounter all the time in classical going all the way back to Bach's time.
      However in the blues (and jazz), they started turning every chord dominant, not necessarily with a functional direction but simply for color and mood! You can take any basic progression like a I V IV and add that dominant 7 to every chord, and you'll hear immediately how "bluesy" it sounds.

      Then have a listen to some various Beatles songs and see if you can spot how they did this too. Especially early Beatles which had a more clear link to this blues rock sound. Later Beatles I feel they began to add other types of 7th chords, but all throughout their musical career the Dom7 appears frequently.

      This is my very long-winded way of saying – definitely don't overlook practicing those Dom7s! They are very handy across all genres :)

      Like 2
    • Jonathan Wing Thanks Jonathan! I completely agree. I don't know why I shy away from the dominant 7, I've always known that the Beatles and other musical heroes use it a lot. I can hear many of these chords in Thom Yorke songs for example - he uses the whole range of available colours, or at least that how it sounds to me. I come from that background really, but my understanding (such as it is) is intuitive and I am really now very enthusiastic about expanding my knowledge, becoming a more competent pianist, and getting more into classical music. I can play only one piece (you've probably already guessed it, Bach's Prelude in C) and found that to be a complete revelation - not because of anything technical, but because I felt that I was  emotionally engaged from the inside out, not just as a listener. This is the promise that Tonebase holds for me - to do more of that, even if it's only simple pieces. Happy days!

      Like 1
    • Dan McCarthy oh that's awesome! I love Thom Yorke, Radiohead, and Jonny Greenwood (he's such an amazing composer - he wrote a beautiful piano-driven piece for the film Phantom Thread called "House of Woodcock" – I recommend checking it out if you haven't!).

      Also I recommend the YouTuber channel David Bennett Piano, you may find his analyses interesting. He looks a lot of pop music through the lens of a classically trained pianist and breaks down theory in a really clear way - and he's especially a big fan of both The Beatles and Radiohead, so they get featured a lot on his channel where he dives deep into specific uses of chords they employ. I just searched his channel for "beatles" and there are dozens of videos on them alone. He's a treasure trove of pop theory I think!

      Bach's Prelude in C is a beautiful piece of music – I still return to it often. I don't have it front of me right now but if I remember previously spotting some "maj7" and "min9" type jazz chords arpeggiated, but I put those in quotes because again Bach and his contemporaries would have never really thought of them as complete chords the way we describe them today, rather treating them as a passing tone or suspension which then resolves. It's pretty fun to analyze works old and new because you'll begin to see how while there are stylistic differences (and instrumentation differences) over the centuries, a lot of music is really not all that different. That is to say, Beatles and Bach have a lot more in common than may be obvious on the surface.

      Here's one last tidbit I would say about modern uses of the dominant chord vs. classical (or even blues) uses – and that is these days you're more likely to encounter an altered dominant chord of some kind which gives it a somewhat more modern sound, or a dominant with a suspension. Stuff like the Dom11 chord = it's a dominant chord with the 11 (same as 4) but they will often leave out the 3rd, making it basically a dominant sus. Or, try this - play a major triad in your right hand, and then in your left hand play a bass note which is just one whole tone above the "root" of that triad on the right. (ex: Bb major in your right, over a C in the bass). It's essentially a type of dominant sus chord with the 7, 9, and 11 – and resolves beautifully down a 5th (this case to F).

      You're unlikely to encounter this type of sound in classical but you'll discover it a lot in jazz/pop/rock/rnb/etc. However – you can't paint the walls until you've built the room – so what I enjoy about classical theory is it lays a fantastic foundation of all these chord types which are merely flourished and colored by modern musicians, and when you have the foundation under your fingers it makes it a lot easier to explore those modern voicings.

      That's a lot but I get excited nerding out about harmony lol. Happy playing :)

      Like
    • Jonathan Wing Marvellous. Phantom Thread is one of my favourite films. Greenwood excels, beautiful car, beautiful clothes, beautiful house. Amazing performances and music. And those tailoring ladies are real tailoring ladies, not actors! A nice invocation of a certain type of London environment too (I'm a Londoner). I'm sure you must have checked out The Smile, but give them a go if not.  Am experimenting with that Dom11 chord almost as I type. Yes, I'm a Bennett fan too. 

       

      I've basically been an electronic musician for a few years now and released a couple of albums. But somehow I managed to paint the walls before I built the room, which is to say I've relied on Midi rather than piano or keyboard technique, and have created music without any real understanding of what I was doing. I am here to learn how to build the room and how to use the tools (piano and theory). It's only been a week or so but so many new things have opened up for me and my love for the piano grows every day. And what a generous community!

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  • The name Russian Chords comes from the Russian Piano school.

    A more simple way is to play the main functions, Tonika, Subdominant, Dominant in all Inversions for at least 6 Major and 6 Minor keys. First as Block Chord, followed by Arpeggios.

    Like 1
    • Michael Walther Thank you Michael. I have no (zero, zilch, nada) musical education and I am trying to get my head around your advice but when I do I will give it a go. I can certainly tell that I'm looking at 12x11 variations with the Russian chords so simplification is good. On the other hand, if it was easy everyone would be a decent player so I understand I have to knuckle down to some hard work.

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  • Let me give one example.

    Lets start with C Mayor

    Tonika: C-E-G

    1.st Inverson: E-G-C

    2.nd Inversion: G-C-E

     

    Subdominant: F-A-C

    1.st Inversion: A-C-F

    2.nd Inversion: C-F-A

     

    Dominant: G-H-D

    1.st Inversion: H-D-G

    2.nd Inversion' D-G-H

     

    I highly recommend:

    The complete Book of Scales, Chords, Arpeggios and Cadences

    by Palmer, Manus, Lethco

    Like 1
  • Ok great. Thanks very much for taking the time to explain. I doubt that the H (instead of B) is a typo as it repeats 3 times, so something else to get my head around!? will check out the book.

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    • Dan McCarthy H is the note name for B in German (and perhaps some other countries in northern Europe). You might think that therefore they would call Bb "Hb" but nope – it actually is B! (So H = B natural, and B = B flat). Very confusing I know haha. But you won't encounter this much, just something to be aware of if the source or speaker is German.

      Fun fact, BACH had a nerdy/clever way of signing his name using the notes on a staff - B-A-C-H which translated to English note letters would be Bb-A-C-B. 🤓

      Like
    • Jonathan Wing Thanks Jonathan. That really is a new one on me. But I'm struggling with 7 letters! 🙂

      Like
  • Michael Walther said:
    The complete Book of Scales, Chords, Arpeggios and Cadences
    by Palmer, Manus, Lethco

     If there are any other players in the UK following this conversation and you are interested in that book, be careful on Amazon. Amazon pushes a version that costs £37.90 (!!!), but which is identical to another version they have for £13.50 or £4.99 on kindle. On kindle it looks great and is very usable.

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