Welcome to the tonebase Piano Community!

Jonathan O'Neill Welcome to Tonebase, Jonathan!

I am sure there are other elementary-level learners! I don't know which lessons that I have done would be most helpful to you (I am a Tonebase level 8) but if the algorithm set up a "practice plan" for you, that should have suggestions. 
I would definitely try to learn fundamentals before learning the well-known pieces by Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Mendelssohn, Chopin, Brahms, Rachmaninoff, and Debussy, but a lot of them actually composed early intermediate-level pieces. If you want, I can give you repertoire ideas. 

Maria Thanks very much for the reply, Maria!

I did do the little pathway questionnaire, but I didn't feel like it was capable of preocessing any nuanced information and tended to just funnel you into one of the fairly broad levels. I think I'm probably somewhere in the vicinity of 3 or 4. I've since had a browse through the first 4 levels and bookmarked 30-odd courses so plenty to work through! :D

I feel like I have my trajectory, in terms of repertoire, pretty well-sorted, while allowing for variability as I develop, but there could be areas I haven't considered so am definitely always open to hearing suggestions :)

Jonathan O'Neill I would guess you are a level 3.

Have you listened to any of Schubert's dances (Ländlers, Waltzes, Originaltänze, Wiener Deutsche Tänze, etc.)?

Melanie Bonis and Cecile Chaminade also composed a decent number of beginner and intermediate pieces.

Chopin's Preludes in A Major and B minor and Waltz in A Minor are also probably not too far above your level, along with Liszt's La Cloche Sonne.

I hope that is helpful!

Jonathan O'Neill Hi Jonathan =) Welcome to Tonebase. As a teacher, I like that you have such specific technique / sound production goals in mind along with your repertoire goals. For students of your study level, I find two things particularly important to develop. The first is a quick release of the fingers without bumping the dynamic / over-gesturing. The second is learning to move the wrist so that it always supports the fingers (particularly fingers 4 and 5). These two aspects of playing are very important for good articulation, control in fast passagework and consistency in tone.  

Learning about rotation is also important in the intermediate levels but this can be a complicated concept for students and is more suitable as you get further into studying sonatinas where you will encounter Alberti bass patterns. It doesn't hurt to learn about it sooner though!

I would also say do not underestimate the value of musicianship skills like some simple ear-training and sight-reading practice. I would definitely want students around your study level to be comfortable with contour reading (reading steps / skips / intervals instead of strictly decoding everything). It is important to develop these skills so that you can process new repertoire at a rate that keeps pace with its increasing challenges / length.

Anyway, that is just a few thoughts off the top of my head! Take or leave as you like of course =) The most important part is to stay engaged and keep trying. Small steps every day add up before we know it!

Jonathan O'Neill 

Welcome to Tonebase, Jonathan!

I see you are already receiving a lot of academic and specific technical advice!

Because we haven't heard you play, I believe it would be more useful to give you more general advice on what worked best for us, and what we wish we knew earlier.

In my case, what worked best (and still does!) was whenever I had the best teacher I could have. When I looked forward to my next lesson as soon as I had finished the previous lesson, when I felt proud to be their student, that's when I knew (s)he was the best teacher for me, and that's when I practiced and progressed the most, which led to the most satisfying outcomes. I will always remember one particular lesson where I thanked my teacher for making me reach the level I had reached at that point. She answered that I did all the work! Of course she was being overly humble, but I believe that a motivated student will be the one to come up with the solution to each problem they encounter, under the teacher's crucial guidance, needless to say!

Maria I'm embarrassed to say, given how much of his music that I have listened to, that I am not across Schubert's dances. Nor have I heard any of the compositions from the female composers you've mentioned; something I'm looking forward to correcting.

Given your recommendations here I'd maybe correct my previous estimation to a level 3, as you say, even an early level 3 as I suspect those pieces you've mentioned would present me considerable challenges with regard to voicing and pedalling. I feel like the correct stepping stones to get to those pieces are probably works like Burgmuller's etudes (currently working on), Diabelli and Clementi sonatinas (current stretch goal) and some stuff from the Schumann/Tchaikovsky Albums for the Young.

Thanks very much for the exposure to some new composers/pieces. All the best! :)

Dustin Anderson Thanks very much for the wonderful reply. I held back in my original post from adding too much about myself but I'm encouraged to share.

Thanks for mentioning here some specifics to target. I have bookmarked some videos covering these exact points. I have touched on them to a degree; the first 2 burgmuller etudes require some knowledge of wrist rotation and some elementary Mozart arrangements in Faber's Adult piano adventures introduced me to the Alberti bass. Excited to learn more. One thing I have found quite strange with regard to rotation, in Burgmuller's Arabesque for example, is that when playing quick, sprightly passages from right to left with the left hand, I actually feel more comfortable rotating over than under, I achieve a much smoother sound. Not sure if that's a bad habit to be developing.

Sight-reading is something I cover specifically 2 days a week, just as a 10minute pre-repertoire activity, with John Kember's 'Sight-reading' but also naturally as I work on Czerny op.599 and any new pieces I encounter. Do you have any specific recommendations for ear-training? Even just a solid relative pitch is something I've long envied but in all honesty have made no effort towards :)

Noel Nguyen Hi, Noel! Thanks so much for commenting. Yes, very pleased with the lovely community response already :)

I would be terrified to share a recording 😂 I don't even record and watch myself, though I'm aware it can be very beneficial. Perhaps when I get the Arabesque up to speed, I'll upload something.

Thanks for the reminder on the importance of a good teacher! I've, as of yet, not had a teacher. I thought it might be useful to learn elementary stuff, as far as possible, myself before getting lessons. I have been looking around for a teacher for my 4-yr-old so maybe I should suck it up and get one for myself. 😅

P.S. I saw a video of your playing for the recent Mozart Challenge. Very impressive! 👍

Jonathan O'Neill Hello again =) I am wondering if you are perhaps confusing lateral movement of the wrist for the rapid scale figures of the Arabesque with forearm rotation? I say this because the Arabesque is an excellent example of a piece that requires lateral wrist movement so that your 4th and 5th fingers maintain control and tone, as well as a piece that requires quick release of the fingers. It is not really a piece with forearm rotation since there is not a rapid back and forth pattern with a pivot point. 

I do see why you would describe it as you have though. If you find you are lifting your wrist up and way from the keys as you play the passages, you are correct that it is not the motion you want. This is a common thing for students to do in this type of passage work because they want to play quickly so they unintentionally activate larger joints like the wrist to 'help' the fingers. It often seems to make things easier when it in fact slows us and adds unnecessary movement. Your wrist should ideally feel like it is moving side to side as though on a rail while your fingers play and release quickly. Speed comes from balancing the wrist movement with fingers efficiently. 

I am of course drawing conclusions from your descriptions rather than your actual playing so take the above as general advice and not a precise critique of anything you are doing =)

For ear training, I know there are apps that some people like but I can't say I have used them myself to recommend anything specifically. I tend to work on this directly with my students in their lessons. I can say that many start by learning and practicing the identification of major / minor 3rds and the perfect 5th, since these are the tones of the major and minor triads. From there the perfect 4th is usually added. After that it is more variable in how someone expands their interval palette. Some people use solfegge while others use familiar songs as recognition / confirmation. Any app that lets you practice this is useful as it is really just about consistent practice (like everything!). 

Dustin Anderson Ah yes, you're right, Dustin, I didn't make the distinction. Thanks for the clarification and for the thoughtful advice.

Re: the ear training apps I have, just in the last couple of days started to use a combination of a couple, 'Functional Ear Training' and 'Complete Ear Trainer'. You were more or less smack on, CET begins with Major and minor 3rds as well as perfect octaves, then perfect 4ths/5ths before going onto major/minor chords. 👍

Maria I didn't write a bio here - but my situation is similar to Jonathan's.( No teacher.. but got by - playing for several years. ) I see that you are level 8 so have a couple of questions 1. Do you think it is even possible to play reasonably musically without a teacher ?  2. Is it necessary to memorize a piece to play it musically. 

I may be a level 2 -with serious gaps in musical knowledge. Play about 1.2 hours almost every day for about 2.5 years now. What I am playing(reading the score carefully) ...Started with a Mozart concerto k414.. played only that piece everyday -small sections.. ( I couldn't read even a single line when I started - but persisted ) then about 4 months ago a lot of pieces became accessible rather suddenly.. 

Yesterday night I played thorough Chopin's C#minor. and Beethovens Piano Sonata 7 ( 2nd mvmt  only). But I am completely unsure about true musicality in my playing hence my questions   1 and 2. I am absolutely terrified of how my recording will sound as I hear mistakes rather acutely.. :-) I have great difficulty memorizing long pieces so have not put much effort into it.