Mastering Large-scale work: Tips and advice!

It is a common question: "I can independently play movements or variations of this piece, but how do I put it all together?" Today we talk about tips and tricks that we can apply to help you achieve your goals! Leave pieces in the forum chat that you would like advice on!

 

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https://app.tonebase.co/piano/live/player/large-scale-works-advice

 

 

 

We are going to be using this thread to gather suggestions and questions!                                                                  

  • What questions do you have on this topic?
  • Any particular area you would like me to focus on?
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  • Since I started this - Goldberg Variations. Also on my wish list - Carnaval (don’t know if I’ll ever get to that one). 

    Reply Like 1
    • Tammy
    • TT2022
    • 1 yr ago
    • Reported - view

    How do you maintain interest and motivation when working on a piece over several months … especially anything that’s longer than 4 minutes! Eg Chopin Ballades. Bach Toccatas. Gershwin’s Rhapsody in Blue. Anything with multiple movements. 

    Reply Like
    • Tammy FWIW, what I do when my interest flags (and I've worked on some pieces for YEARS, on and off) is try to pretend I've never played the piece before - basically imagine I'm starting from scratch with it. It helps me reexamine my approach and possibly try different things. Also, I try to figure out what could be better and how that can be accomplished. With great music you can always find interesting things to focus on.

      Reply Like
    • Lars
    • Lars
    • 1 yr ago
    • Reported - view

    I would like to hear about tips for Schumann´s Fantasy op 17 that I worked on for a long time. I am looking for new and creative ways to complete the three movements and to put them together. How do you feel about stamina, technical approaches especially the end of the second movement with coda? Thanks so much!

    Reply Like
  • I started working on the Bach e-minor Partita during our Bach Challenge, so far playing the Toccata and Allemande. But actually I still have problems maintaining concentration even during the Toccata. While I can play all passages individually, they are a lot of accidents on the road when I play through the whole movement. Will be happy for any advise! Otherwise I agree with Harriet Kaplan - would love to learn more about approaching the Goldberg Variations as a whole. Thanks for setting this up! 

    Reply Like
  • Like others here I'm working on the Goldberg variations! This last week I have gotten a little more serious into it, and I'm planning on starting every practice session with 1hour Goldberg. 

    A thing I've noticed with practicing Bach, is that I need to be more patient with details taking longer time to memorize. (I have not practiced a lot of Bach in the past..) Also, I need to focus a bit harder with all the melodic lines, then with more "chord-based" music. I've come to realize that Bach is probably the greatest brain-trainer there is, and that patience is key. 

    Reply Like 1
    • aliceyip
    • aliceyip
    • 1 yr ago
    • Reported - view

    Liszt Spanish Rhapsody Difficulties 


    (1) In the Molto vivace section, I found the Interlocking octaves challenging to play evenly (wrist relaxation) and without missing notes. When try to play leapings and switching between Staccatissmo and Marcato, l tend to rush after the chords.
    (2)  I found the Arpeggio Octaves both similar and contrary motion difficult to play (wrist relaxation) and challenging to play evenly and without missing notes. 
    (3)  I found the wide leaps with left hand leaps in contrary motion difficult to play them accurately.
    (4)  P.12 - P.13 Semiquaver triplets (Wrist moving), Accuracy and relaxation, coordination with left hand chords
    (5)  P.15 and P.18 - P.19 Double notes with single notes (Wrist moving), I have adpoted your suggested fingerings and allocated some notes to the left hand.  It definitely helps ease the burden a lot :). However, I tend to build up tensions when I play the whole passage and it  becomes difficult to maintain coordination(and to not miss notes).

    Reply Like
  • I’d love to learn the Chopin B flat minor sonata. I’ve learnt to notes of all the moments but perfected none (of the movements). It took months to learn the notes and I’ve put it aside to learn some shorter pieces. I had begun to loose interest in this mammoth work (for me). 

    Id still love to be able to play the complete sonata. Any ideas on how I could approach this? I feel it could be a year or two before I will be able to put all the moments together (at my learning pace). 

    Reply Like
  • I know it varies on skill level/amount of practice/difficult of the piece/etc but I would like to know generally how long should it take to learn a long piece- like all the movements of a sonata (I have been slowly going through mozart 331), 20 page Chopin scherzo #2 (which I am hesitant to learn because of the 20 pages) or any long piece. Knowing generally how long it would take would help with knowing if you’re on track and hopefully keep the motivation level up.

    Reply Like
  • Mozart's Sonata in A Major

    Reply Like
  • I wish I could have participated in the event live, but I was at my piano lesson this morning! This was possibly the most interesting one I've listened to at Tonebase thus far and brought up memories (many not so pleasant!) of my interactions with teachers over the years. This way of approaching music has always made much more sense to me than going at it as if it's a piece of needlepoint or a paint-by-numbers project. A lot of food for thought here, thank you.

    Reply Like
    • Pauline
    • Pauline
    • 1 yr ago
    • Reported - view

    I enjoyed this session! I like the analogy - "orbiting around a piece" when you first begin...and strive to come in "closer" to the sun - the piece of music you are working on. 

     * Recording oneself. *

    * Starting big" and "getting smaller".

    *Packing the piece up...trying to get the materials in the 'suitcase'."

    Sometimes you have to "take it all out" and then "repack it in a more organized way".

     

    Analogy - "...pots with the water boiling", then "add spices, etc."

     

    I love the clarity! Setting clear goals. Having a feeling of accomplishment (however small) is crucial. Accountability to oneself for moving forward. Practical and healthy!

     

    Thank you, Dominic! Thank you to everyone who asked questions, too!

    Reply Like 3
    • Pauline Thank you for the summery, Pauline!

      Reply Like
      • Pauline
      • Pauline
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Andrea Buckland You're welcome, Andrea!

      Reply Like
  • I watched the recording and am excited to try this advice of big to small. I think I generally have been somewhere in the middle of the two approaches - but I would be interested to see how it will work for me to let go of more details and follow the process Dominic suggests. It would be great to have more momentum and finish pieces sooner. Thank you Dominic! Your talks are always more informative and helpful than I could even ask for. 

    Reply Like
    • Jenny
    • Jenny.1
    • 1 yr ago
    • Reported - view

    I also wasn't able to see this live, but I'm so pleased I caught the recording. Thank you Dominic, your expertise and advice is always so amazing, and even though I'm a relative novice (compared to the many amazing artists here on Tonebase). I always find you share nuggets of gold that are applicable at every stage of the musical journey. Glad I had a notebook handy, I want to remember the "suitcase of the mind", the "musical stew" and the "musical solar system"! This has helped me focus my practice on the areas that I need to. Thank you so much.

    Reply Like
  • Hello Dominic. I just wish to thank you for your insights and very broad knowledge and experience in this morning’s topic. I was the one who asked for advice on learning the Chopin B flat minor sonata. 
    I am approaching 70 years of age so I don’t have time to learn everything I’d like to, so I refuse to see any piece of music as being beyond my abilities. I use to play the piano as a young man and learn for about 12 years. Alas life took me in a different direction and just recently I have returned to my music. 
    your presentation was second to none. Your analogies and metaphors made perfect sense…. Put everything into perspective (for me). The one thing which stood out for me was the learning process - NOTES FIRST. That is the way I’ve been taught but because I defer to YouTube for my music instruction, the advice is contrary to what you were saying. Now I feel I can justifiably go back to the way I use to learn!!  Once more, thank you very much for your presentation. 

    Reply Like
    • Lars
    • Lars
    • 1 yr ago
    • Reported - view

    A real pleasure to listen to and thank you for the good and useful advice! Regards, Lars👍

    Reply Like
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