Group 4

Alexander Weymann dobra! I hear you voicing chord progressions and sending clear signals of which line is leading. Take a bit more time between slurs that end longer units and will eventually intersect with soprano phrases (esp. The repeated canon). In late Chopin we need to hear chamber music potential more often than the earlier periods, but this mazurka expressly calls for it through the counterpoint. The real mazurka in B, a bit less upper voice repeating E’s at 2:40-45, this drone was covering the internal moving line. Accents of the dance could be more centred on 2nd beats and 3rd beats: this mazurka requires the first beat to be clear but second and third to be emphasized. Less scale literalism at 3:52, more shaded highlighting that the bass lines change register and mimic one another. Next step: more softly move from phrase ends to new phrases. Good work so far! Do roboty! 

Jarred Dunn thank you so much for the swift reply! Your detailed comments really resonate and help me understand my own dissatisfaction with my playing of this piece so far. I'll get to work! 

Alexander Weymann proszę bardzo

Mark Forry 

My answers are in bold!

I think of the kujawiak as more restrained, elegant, perhaps introspective; Op.23 No.1 seems like a good example. I had also been thinking about Op.7 No.2 as a kujawiak because of what I perceive as its introspective character; however, with its Vivo marking and 160mm, that would seem to make it more of a mazur. Yes, Op. 23 nr. 1 is Kujawiak first, then Mazur in B-flat and Trio as Mazurek in E-flat major. Op. 7 nr. 2 is Kujawiak but rather optimistic rather than pessimistic beginning. The pessimism begins in the second theme. Mazurek is in the A-major/F-sharp minor middle section.
 

- How do you evaluate whether a given mazurka is one of these three dances? All Chopin Mazurkas have at least two dance types. Evaluation = examine harmonies and rhythmic formulas of each dance type at the cardinal measures of each section. 
 

- Or maybe multiple dance rhythms in a single mazurka? Precisely.

- Do the metronome markings help give an indication? Sometimes. In Chopin we have to think in contradictions and mixtures (ie. Op. 7 nr. 2 Vivo = Oberek or Mazur, but is harmonically darker = Kujawiak). 
 

- Are there other features you look for, such as articulation? Yes, articulation is one (accents mainly), and the rhythmic formulas of a Mazur, Oberek, and Kujawiak are all unique to each dance type. Ideally we play, hear, and dance them to sense them corporeally. See below for places where the rhythms are outlined.

- Can you suggest further reading on this subject? Milewski, Chopin Mazurkas and the Myth of the Folk. Polish Music Center USC Thornton. Pawlak, Aleksander. Folklor Muzyczny Kujaw [Musical folklore of Kujawy]. Krakow: PWM, 1980. 

Mark Forry you know what, I'm really glad we're in the same group - this way, I can be sure to benefit from your great questions! :-) Keep at it; we all learn so much! 

Angela Fogg first video: good freedom and action of the hand/arm. At 0:36, voice the tops of each chord a little more to show different layers of sound, rather than chord structures (listen to Artur Rubinstein and Ewa Pobłocka). Repeat of this phrase: start much softer, this can build more effectively if the bass slowly fades into view rather than making its presence known from the outset. Good general articulation of the second beat, good that you are not clipping the third beat. Mazurek: differentiate between triplets and dotted rhythms. At 2:12-2:25 you jump quickly between registers but this entire passage can be played entirely with a horizontal movement on the keyboard with fingertips touching the keyboard and the hand moving like the body of a gull as it glides - more horizontal motion between the leaps than vertical. second video: the waltz figuration in a mazurka (NOTE-chord-chord) should be refigured to include a rubato between beats 2 and 3 (note-CHORD-chord), in other words, beat two is shown as inflected rather than beat 1. In your case, beat 1 exists but the familiarity you have with waltz playing is winning out (listen to Horowitz). In the G-flat section (trio), think of dudy (bagpipes) or lira korbowa - constant droning and accents changing to suit the melody. The repeating G-flat quints were a dead giveaway of the waltz character your hand is accustomed to for this style of music because your wrist inflects tiny accents on the first pulses of most bars even in the stillness of an accent-free zone. When accents shifted toward the end of the G-flat repetitions I notice you are thinking about the accentuation of a mazurek more and more. Dobra robota, ale wracaj do roboty!

Alexander Weymann Pedal yes, zgazdam się (I agree) is the main thing to work on. Legato in this mazurka can feel very intimidating without pedal, it would be better to record without pedal as a means to hear what your fingers can do without it. 1:44 this pulsation is like a waltz, but it's the standard mazurka rhythm - aim for the second beat and linger with a special rubato timing between second and third beats. Good fingering at 2:44-45! Less in real pulsations during the fugal passage, let this be more improvised. At 3:21 I noticed you play D-natural rather than D-sharp (same in the first passage of this same theme). Dynamiki subito piano at 3:23-41 was good. Coda: the dotted rhythms less militant and more noble, military style playing here can make it sound vertical. It's noticeable that for 4:46-5:00 you make much better pedal choices for harmonic colour changes - apply the same principle of clarity based on harmonies but instead of basing it on harmonies, sometimes base pedal choices on rhythm and pulse. To jest subtelny Mazurek (it's a subtle Mazurerk) - combining the two hands will help you decipher pedal choices. I suggest practicing bar by bar trying several pedal placements one-at-a-time per bar.

Jarred Dunn thank you so much - this is great, as usual. Lots of stuff to consider, explore, and play with. Chodźmy do pracy!

Jarred Dunn 1:54 (Ewa Pobłocka playing Op. 59 No. 2) is such a great example of what I think you mean when you say: first beat distinct, but not stressed; second and third beat stressed; second beat somewhat stretched so that the third beat is slightly delayed (I'm paraphrasing, but that's how I've understood it so far). 

Alexander Weymann it’s a perfect description! Ona jest świetna pianistką (she’s a fantastic pianist). Another inspiring recording is Katarzyna Popowa-Zydroń (mój profesor). 

Jarred Dunn I remember your mentioning her name; I'll be sure to look her up!

Alexander Weymann Thanks for pointing that out with that great description! I have been trying to understand this better and this is the perfect example.

Mark Forry Vivo Kujawiak jest normalne (it’s normal), it means just a less expansive pulsation. In this case it’s slightly more complex because the key is related to Chopin’s pessimistic works (prelude 2, walc op34 nr2, mazurkas op17 nr4, op59 nr1) and less often he uses this key for sprightly means (etudes op10 nr2, op25 nr4 and 11). Good effort here to show legato in the A major section, but for LH choreography work for horizontal movements rather than jumps. In f-sharp minor, good rhythm! Octaves should be voiced on the upper note, retaining a nasal quality and a Chopinian refinement (lowest bass note is a shadow of the upper bass note). Słuchaj rezonans (=listen for resonance in loud parts). The louder you’re playing, think of more voices singing and screaming together! 

Jarred Dunn Trying now -- thanks!

Jarred Dunn 

I especially love the notion of Chopin, the epitome of dreamy introspection in music*, evoking raucous full-voiced peasant singing!

* Just found this article by Halina Goldberg, looking forward to reading it:
"Chopin’s Oneiric Soundscapes and the Role of Dreams in Romantic Culture"

Mark Forry I love Halina's work! Her book "Music in Chopin's Warsaw" is a cornerstone in Chopin research and especially helps for understanding his early days. Thanks for sharing with everyone about the article on oneiric soundscapes, which I recommend. I love the literature on Chopin's dream life, especially that in Chopin and His World.