Bach is Difficult! A Live Q&A for Curious Pianists

Join Dominic today to discuss the music of Bach! Bring your questions, problems and more to get answers and solutions!

 

Please note the change of time to 12:00pm PT!

 

Leave any questions below in the chat!

 

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https://app.tonebase.co/piano/live/player/pno-bach-solutions-2025

 

We are going to be using this thread to gather suggestions and questions!                                                                                

  • What questions do you have on this topic?
  • Any particular area you would like me to focus on?
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  • Tips on how to add extra ornaments especially when repeating a section.

    Like 2
    • Emma
    • Emma.7
    • 2 wk ago
    • Reported - view

    When first starting out on Bach (e.g. BWV 999), how to practice so that you can memorise the  piece, all the notes and subtle changes...

    Like
  • I wonder if you can speak to the role of extemporazation in Bach (and other Baroque composers), as to both ornamentation and rhythm. For example, when is unwritten ornamentation too much or improper; and am I allowed to decide to prolong the dot after a note while shortening the corresponding following note?

    Like 1
    • Gloria
    • Gloria
    • 2 wk ago
    • Reported - view

    Can you discuss about prelude and Fuga BWV 855/1 ? 

    Like
    • Peter Golemme
    • Piano Player with Day Job (for now)
    • Peter_G
    • 2 wk ago
    • Reported - view

    There is a small ornament I would like to play in the Bb Major Prelude from book 2 of the WTC .  It's a simple little 3 note shake which I believe would be described as an inverted mordant on the first G in triplet appearing at Beat 3 of Measure 2 (circled in RED in the attached PDF).

    I can execute it fairly easily when simply playing it by itself in 1 hand, but in the context of playing the piece with both hands, my RH hand seems to lock up on this ornament. I have to push through the lock-up and it results in a *hitch* in performing the ornament.

    For the life of me, I can’t figure out what I am doing differently with my hand when I play the preceding notes.  I suspect that the culprit may be the little Turn I do on the Eb in the soprano, beat 4 of Measure 1 (circled in green), but I cannot ascertain what it would be doing to my hand to cause it to lock up when I arrive at this problematical ornament.

    I've also uploaded a short video illustrating my hand position when playing the ornament (a) alone, and (b) in context of the other notes.

    Any feedback would be most welcome! 

    P.S. These sessions are really great and I always learn so much from Dominic's advice to myself and the other pianists.

      • Peter Golemme
      • Piano Player with Day Job (for now)
      • Peter_G
      • 2 days ago
      • Reported - view

      Peter Golemme and here is the short video illustration mentioned above.

      Like
  • I posted my questions in another thread but will copy it here. 

    I have a general question about tempo. In the past, I tend to rush through a piece and try to play at a fast tempo before I am ready. I started practicing at a very slow tempo so I will get all the rhythm and note correctly. I watch your other livestream where you talk about practicing close to your goal tempo with very short section, like 1-2 bars at a time. When I try to do the fast tempo, that is when I realize some of the fingering would not work. Now I have to go back and re-learn the new fingering. And it sounds worse than before and I feel like I am not making much progress. I cannot even get through a few bars at a time.  

     

    Question:

    1. What practice tempo do you recommend in the early stage of learning a piece? Do you go back and forth with slow, moderate and fast every time you practice?

    2. This is my first WTC prelude and fugue (WTC book 2 G major). What tempo do you recommend? I heard some insanely fast tempo and there is no way to get even close. 

    Like 1
      • Gail Starr
      • Retired MBA
      • Gail_Starr
      • 13 days ago
      • Reported - view

      rebecca LAM If you have written out your fingering for the Prelude, I'd be happy to look at it.  Not sure I can help, but I can try.

      Like 1
    • rebecca LAM for WTC book 2 G major prelude,

      1. can you give general recommendations on how to decide on articulation? I play staccato on most of the eighth notes.  Not sure if this is the right approach.
      Here are the area in question: bar 13-16, bar 26,27, bar 33-36. 

      2. When there is repeat in the piece, do you play differently the second time? And how do you suggest doing that?

      Like 1
      • Begoña
      • Begona
      • 2 days ago
      • Reported - view

      rebecca LAM 

      Hi there,

      Thanks for the recommendation.  There are different approaches to the interpretation of both prelude and fugue depending on editions. For me staccato is too difficult. I follow henle.  (Maintaining pulsation and bringing voices is hard as it is in the tempo.)

      Back to my query regarding pedalling in the fugue in bars stated is this a good option?

      Begona

      Like 1
      • Peter Golemme
      • Piano Player with Day Job (for now)
      • Peter_G
      • 2 days ago
      • Reported - view

      Begoña Hello Begoña FWIW, here is my opinion as a fellow struggling amateur pianist (assuming you are talking about the FUGUE, because you referred to it as the PRELUDE in your first post above!):

      I would not use pedal on bars 13-15, because of the consecutive adjacent scale notes: the pedal will blur the harmony

      M. 16, the pedal does not cause the above problem, but I would not find it necessary: only the first D and B in the RH need sustaining, and it seems easy enough (?) to hold them down for their duration.

      mm. 26-27:  if I used pedal, I would change it every beat until the RH E. But again, I would not use pedal here.  It would cause those LH notes to sustain, whereas they are the successive notes of a single line, so I would want to keep them separate -- whether played legato or staccato -- rather than sustaining them so as to run into each other.

      mm.33-36 -- same as above.  Also the adjacent scale tones would cause a clash if pedaled together except for in m. 35.

      We used to be told (back in my day) never to use the pedal in the WTC, but a more modern view seems to be use it judiciously when it can help with your musical objective.  Dominic seems to agree with that and has said so in several of his videos regarding Bach.

      The risk is that you don't want to over-rely on it to compensate for developing your technique.

      I use the pedal frequently throughout the WTC, but generally only very lightly here and there to connect some notes in a legato line [notwithstanding Sir Andras Schiff's admonishment:  "Legato should be achieved with the hands, not the feet"]

      In practicing, when focusing on developing my technique, I'll use ZERO pedaling to try to improve my legato skills, but when focusing on performing it, I'll use the pedal as stated above, to help get beyond the limitations of my technique in playing a legato line.

      Having said all that, in this particular fugue, I would not be inclined to use pedal anywhere. You want the lines to be heard as separate lines. The Fugues in general are all about separate melodic lines combining, and too much pedal would blur them together.

      As for tempo, I try to play this somewhat quickly, but not at the blistering pace you hear on some records. Around MM 112 per eight note, and once comfortable there,  I might perhaps try to go up to 120. But much faster than that, I for one, can't play the ornaments, and will stumble on the 32nd notes.  Also I find the sequences quite beautiful, and they get lost if you just blitz through them. This piece is very beautiful even at very slow tempos.

      Have fun with it. Once under your fingers, it is so much fun to play, you'll never want to stop!

      Like
      • Begoña
      • Begona
      • yesterday
      • Reported - view

      Peter Golemme 

      Yes the fugue. I will check these suggestions. Thanks

      Like
    • Begoña
    • Begona
    • 4 days ago
    • Reported - view

    Hi, there I am working Prelude and fugue XV BWV 884 Well-Tempered Klavier Book 2. Henle edition.   I am wondering if pedal can be applied in the fugue in Bars 14,61, 67,68 to slightly prolong the sound.

    Thanks

    Like 1
    • Hazel
    • Hazel
    • yesterday
    • Reported - view

    I’m learning The Italian Concerto and would like some advice about how to add dynamics to the fast movements. What type of dynamical range is appropriate and how to achieve different articulations with different types of touch and the best techniques to use.

    Like 1
      • Hazel
      • Hazel
      • 15 hrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Hazel Thanks for answering my question Dominic and for the useful advice. It’s great to hear your thoughts and opinions on approaching Bach.

      Like
  • Hi Dominic,

    thank you so much for getting to my Bach question last tuesday. You helped a lot also with some general remarks and about the pedal. It's totally true, one should aim to use it very elaborately. Some think it's strictly forbidden because Bach himself didn't have one. But to transport the very heart and idea of the music, it might be considered not smart to not make use of what you have at hand (or at foot, to say so) for that purpose. It is true that it is all too easy to water the often astonishingly elegant voice leading with the pedal. And drown incredible details in resonance.

    But it is also true that skillful use can help to maintain just exactly those magic integrities of the most beautiful lines intertwining as delicate as profoundly, weaving a tapestry of such grace ...  

     

    Here's an example of incredible french Eloïse Bella Kohn playing strictly no pedal - but then she has most beautiful room acoustics - that act like a constant half or at least quarter pedal ;)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1cQ3ACE_n0

     

    Skillful pedal use by russian Daniil Trifonof; the video visualized his search for an ending, which was his "corona lockdown" project. As with any ending he took some criticism for it, i personally find it heartwarmingly beautiful. 

    He also makes it very clear where Bachs original score ends and his contribution begins by switching into a most dreamy una corda that bears a touch of "what could have been".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDAqyl6C-Do

     

    Another great ending i find Netherlands Bach Society, also on YT - very interesting approach of a mixed instruments and voices recording. Fun fact: German cellist Hans-Eberhard Dentler sais he found evidence of a riddle hidden in the scores by Bach, which he believes to be about the intended instrumentation (but to my knowledge has not been resolved yet). He identified Pythagorean and Archimedean symbols in the original score suggesting a further concealed riddle.

     

    So no specific question today although i could think of several. Lastly what i can contribute, don't shy from altering a fingering if you feel it helps with the voicing. Sometimes (and sometimes after years) a fingering change even comes naturally as you grow more and more into it and feel by heart that it sounds just better that way :)

    I'm only a hobbyist (audio engineer really) practicing mostly for my own enjoyment. It helps me like meditation, mentally cleansing. Thank you Dominic and everyone for this great community :)

    Like
  • Hello Dominic, firstly, I traded in my Schimmel upright, which I loved, for a Grotrian-Steinweg grand, which arrives on the Isle of Wight tomorrow morning! They're called Grotrian in the States after the legal case taken by Steinway and Sons that the Steinweg name was too close to Steinway. The closeness in the name is because Heinrich Engelhard Steinweg started the Steinweg company in Germany in 1835, and sold it on when he moved to the States with most of his large family, and anglicised his name to Henry Steinway.  He left the piano factory in Germany to his eldest son, C F Theodor Steinweg.  The connection between Grotrian and Steinweg was there from the start, as the first piano built by Steinweg was a square piano, designed by and built for Friedrick Grotrian. The subsequent development of the respective companies is quite complex but an interesting read, if anyone is interested in how the respective Steinway and Grotrian-Steinweg came to be.     

    Secondly, I have changed my position on melodic minor scales. My previous position was that there was little point practising them (a lot) as the upwards scale just requires a simple change from major to minor third, and on the way down it's the same as the relative major, except it starts on the 6th note of the scale, so the same fingering applies as the relative major scale.

    However, I then realised that the position above works for flute because the fingerings don't change as it's a single-line instrument, but the melodic scale on the piano requires different fingerings in different directions.  Therefore, I have incorporated melodic minors into my scales practice, via the formula pattern (Sara Davis Buecher), which I think you have called 'the Grand form'.  They are quite steady presently due to the sections of contrary motion, i.e., playing the two different sets of 6ths and 7ths at the same time.

    Enough!

    Thirdly, in relation to the current livestream topic, my questions are about fingering in Bach. Please see the attached pdf.  My question is about Measure 16, where I am using 1 and 3 in succession at the start of the bar. I can't think of any other way to do this.  Any suggestions? My second question is theoretical as it relates to (not) using the thumb in Bach, which I understand was how early music was played. My attempts to play without using my thumb means I have to keep making breaks, which is similar to my solution for the first two 'chords' of bar 16. Has anyone ever tried to replicate the older fingering techniques and would they produce a more authentic sound quality?           

    • Roy James-Pike I noticed after posting the the pdf was mis-named. It's a pity that the F and G on a computer keyboard doesn't sound the note of the key.  Here is a Fuga not a Guga!

      Also, I should mention that I am using Penelope Roskell's scale fingering, which is aimed fundamentally at removing the stress caused by 4 to 1 on the white notes.

    • Andrew
    • Andrew.13
    • 16 hrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Tips on concerto no. 1 measure 8-11 please

    Like
      • Andrew
      • Andrew.13
      • 16 hrs ago
      • Reported - view

      specifically the fingering and jump

      Like
  • Tips to memorise inversions with 4 voices. 

    Like
  • I'm trying to better understand when to use legato or non-legato articulation in Bach, especially on the modern piano. For example, in the Preludes from the English Suites No. 2 and No. 3, I've noticed that many pianists tend to use a light non-legato touch. But in slower, more lyrical movements—like the Sarabande, or the Prelude from Partita No. 1, or a French-style Allemande—it seems more appropriate to play legato or at least with a more connected touch.

    I’ve also heard that within a single piece (like the English Suite No. 2 or 3 Prelude), you don’t necessarily use non-legato throughout—you might choose more legato in some phrases depending on the musical shape.

    Someone mentioned a "rule of thumb" that if there are more than three notes in a row, you tend to use non-legato. But that seems overly simplistic, and I imagine there's more nuance involved.

    So my question is:
    How do you decide when to use legato or non-legato in Bach on the piano? Are there any stylistic or musical principles (beyond general rules of thumb) that can help guide these articulation choices?

    Like
    • Kuro
    • Kuro
    • 15 hrs ago
    • Reported - view

    C-minor prelude no 2 feels crammed. Like the fingers don't fit what to do? Also how to voice it?

    Like
  • Thank you for today Dominic ! What a fantastic livestream. Admittedly, I don't play a ton of Bach or Baroque music but you left me (and others I'm sure) feeling inspired! I've settled on Bach's  Partita in C minor, the Sarabande so I'll take into consideration the advice you gave today and will look forward to any follow-up livestreams on the topic. 

    Like
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