Need some advice on trills after getting injured
Hello everyone at Tonebase !
- I injured my right hand / wrist like 4-5 months ago with some weight at the gym but it seems to be better. However I kinda developped some wrist tightness / stiffness.
- I'm currently studying Bach 2 part Invention in D minor where there are trills over multiples measures and they are giving me hell of a lot of trouble !
- Currently my third year of learning piano so my technique can be improved a lot...
- I have a digital piano, a Kawai ES8 but I don't think it's the problem here !
The problem is that I know that I have to do wrist rotation in order to achieve that with a 1 3 fingering but my wrist remains locked or not as free of movement as I wish it could ...
Are there any exercises / advices that could help me overcome my wrist "tightness" and those trills ? Or should I try to understand completely how to implement the Taubman approach and find how to apply it for me ?
Thank you in advance,
Hadrien
EDIT: I think I'm getting the idea that it might be my hand positioning that might need to be lower when executing those kind of trills ?
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I would recommend watching Bob Durso's videos on Tonebase. Your concept of 'wrist rotation' is somewhat correct, but the rotation is not from the wrist, but from the back of the elbow and the entire finger/wrist/arm should be in alignment. This is a concept from the Taubman approach, which is what I am learning right now, and I find that her approach (Dorothy Taubman) makes a lot of sense to me. I highly recommend watching Bob Durso's videos. Good luck.
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I agree with Agnes' suggestion to watch the Durso videos. It is very valuable to know what Dorothy Taubman taught and Durso presents her method very well.
An additional suggestion: it sometimes helps with longer trills, such as you are finding in BWV 775, to use the 1-3-2-3 fingering. If you watch videos of Artur Rubinstein, frequently you will see him use that trill fingering. That fingering takes practice, especially to produce an even trill, but I think it's worth the effort to add it to your pianistic toolbox.
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Don I agree with your 1-3-2-3 fingering for the trills. My Taubman teacher taught me to use that fingering as well. Also, try not to have the fingers play in the same position on the same key every time. Move the hand a bit in and out with every note. I find that this will also make the trills more even.
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Don Allen
I like that fingering also
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I also injuried my wrist/lower arm doing bench a few months ago. Resting is going to be key. Certain skills takes time to improve, muscles also takes time to develope in all parts of our body. General ideas should be to keep shoulder, forearm and wrist relaxed, your fingers should do most of work. Pratice with staccatos, slurred, slow to fast, crescendo and etc.... Personally I used to do crazy things like practice on tables and chairs while traveling or sitting down doing other things with all finger combinations~
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I’m so sorry about your injury and glad you’re on the mend.
I had a chronic wrist problem (tensynovitis) when I was a teenager and here’s how I brought my trill back. I prefer 2-4 whenever possible, moving into or out of that fingering depending on how I have to start or end the trill—I’ll shift to or from 1-3 or 3-5 or 2-3 but most of the trill is 2-4. That way my hand is balanced and I don’t have to worry about thumb thump. I keep my wrist still and if it starts to feel tight I raise and lower my elbow. In fact I’ve found that I can solve most of the technical problems I have in Bach by asking, “where’s my elbow.” I’ve been learning all of WTC Book 1 so I ask this question a lot!
I do think how we trill is really idiosyncratic—Uchida crosses her 2 over her 1 and it’s always gorgeous and I always think “how in the world does she do that?” So your results will vary and I’ll be interested to hear what works for you.
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Thanks for the suggestion, I'll be having a look at Robert Durso's course and also try the 1 3 2 3 fingering !
The clue on the elbow part will also help in order to implement it
I tried crossing 2 over 1 but I guess it's not for the common mortal !
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Hadrien C I think Uchida probably has 6 fingers. She hides the extra one unless she needs it
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Will take off my pianist hat for a minute, and don my physical therapist's hat.
Do you have tightness during any other activities, or just playing the piano? If you have some lost range of motion as a result of that injury, I would really recommend at least a visit or 2 with a physical therapist with upper extremity experience to teach you how to properly regain that motion.
If you are only having trouble when you play, I would recommend very slow work, hands separately, to get the control you want, along with the suggestions noted above.
If you are having pain while you are playing, then I would say that you definitely need to see a professional, in person, to help you deal with that. Don't try to 'push through the pain'.
Jeff Woodruff, DPT
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Jeff Woodruff Thanks for the advice, I experience some kind of stiffness when trying to do wrist rotation at "close to max range of motion" I'd say. There is little pain but I'm not trying to force it ! On other activites, it is fine.
When I got injured, the first days, I had almost no grip strength available on the injured hand so I bought some kind of wrist splint in order to rest the hand and it's all good
I recently tried the last exercise of this video on "rehab" which focuses on the rotation part: https://youtu.be/4jI0htBnsSE?si=h-DRrlfYEKnMSfvV&t=285 and it seems to have made it a little bit better on the range of motion that my right hand is able to do.
I hope to get the technique down in order to execute effortlessly those trills.
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Perfectly acceptable to shorten those long trills.
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I recommend never playing through pain. If it hurts at all, stop. Focus on hydration (dehydration is an often overlooked factor in recovery), gentle stretching, and slow practice. Work on repertoire that doesn't require rotation until you recover.
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Remember: a "minor" injury can become a "permanent" injury without proper recovery.
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Hi, Hadrien. I certainly hope you are doing better, and solving your wrist and music situation. One thing that helps me play a trill is to stay close to the keys, certainly active fingers, focused fingertips, all else loose, and very important, make sure that at each side of the rotation you are loose; almost as “throwing” the rotation from one side to the other,,, not guiding it,,, it has to be a free motion. That way you can trill for a long, long time, without getting tired. I hope it works for you, as it does for me. Cheers!
