Demystifying Jazz Theory with Jeremy Siskind

Linda Gould Hi Linda, my two cents here, which I've shared with my only student (my nephew!)  is that you've got to be prepared to encounter each of these variants.  Sheet music to pop tunes is almost certainly going to use A for major, Am  for minor (and Am7 for minor seventh), Amaj7 for a major 7th chord ,and  A7 for a dominant.  Rock/pop and folk music arrangements generally use these conventions, whidh have arisen in informal contexts and don't strive for theoretical consistency. They have worked for a lot of players without formal training and are undoubtedly here to stay.

Some of the more serious jazz books have endeavored to standardize and rationalize the nomenclature and symbols, and so you will see there the A- for minors and the triangle for major 7th chords.  Other conventions include using lower-case Roman numerals for minor chords and upper case Roman numerals for majors, and with an x for dominants, (especially secondary dominants)  e.g. ii-V-I when the ii is minor, and IIx-V-I  when the II is a dominant..  in other contexts, the Arabic numbers are used, such as 2-5-1. and the V in jazz is usually assumed to be a dominant, without necessarily indicating it as a V7.  

So you've got to be prepared to read whatever the chart might throw at you, without worrying too much about whether one is more correct than another.

Looking forward to Jeremy's thoughts here too.

Peter Golemme Thanks for your thoughts.  I teach chording to a lot of adult students and I wanted any update on standardization.  You added a new one to my musical toolbox, the IIx as a shorthand for when the ii7 becomes the dominant.  I like it!  

Ken Radford Hey Ken , good to see you on this list. I'll be interested in hearing what Jeremy has to say about this too.

To me, your LH voicing for the Dm6 sounds very much like a G7 (or 13th), unless you've got a strong D in the bass.  I would add an A note to it to evoke a little more of the Dm chord (even though it's a boring 5th), or else substitute a C# for the B. The  In either case the main scale I would use for that voicing would be the D ascending melodic minor.  I think using the B in your voicing limits you to that scale, though maybe Jeremy has other thoughts.  I would be inclined to think of the B note as more of an optional note to add for color in the RH rather than a core component of the LH harmonic voicing.  Using the C# still tolerates the B note but also allows for the possibility of the Bb (allowing the D harmonic minor scale to enter as another possiblity).

For your A7 voicing, I personally would  be inclined to use what's referred to as the A 'altered' scale, which in essence is a Bb melodic minor ascending scale, starting on the A, or otherwise played on top of that A chord voicing..  It also seems like the diminished scales work there too.

I'll be paying keen attention to Jeremy's feedback here, and also to any experimentation you may do with it should you decide to upload some samples!

Letizia Hey Leizia,, based on my illustrious career as a sometimes bar-room piano player I've been asked about this a lot also.  The Pizza Boogie Woogie is a great starting point, and will solidfy in your ears the I-IV-V chord pattern (which is an essential and  standard blues pattern, and so a very good thing to have internalized). 

To get beyond your I-IV-V boogie woogie pattern consider playing around with what I call the "Heart and Soul" Pattern*:  I-vi-ii-V, or its cousin, the I-vi-IV-V.  [lower case numerals indicating minor chords].  So in the key of C, this would be C-Am-Dm (or F) and G7.  This pattern is very familiar to most people and may inspire some good experimentation.  The melody to "Heart and Soul" is a very simple and useful starting point (until you get to the bridge, which we can disregard for purposes of this experiment!), using only diatonic scale tones from the main key.

What you might want to do next to get beyond that, is to get yourself a sheet music chart of a song you like with the chords, and then just try to play something over those chords.  It's OK if they sound like that Hanon exercises at first! in fact it might be useful to take a Hanon pattern and play it on top of those chords, adapting the notes of the pattern to make sure that they work with the underlying scale for the chord.  (for example, if the chord is a Gm and the Hanon pattern would normally include a B natural, change that note to a Bb to go with the Gm chord).

*Jazz players sometimes refer to the I-vi-ii-V pattern as "Rhythm changes" because they are used in the chorus of "I've Got Rhythm" and are an underlying pattern of many, many songs.

Also, many school children will refer to the Heart and Soul pattern as the "Boom de yada" song, based on a children's/camp song, as to which you'll find numerous examples if you Google either "Boom-de-yada"or "I Like the Mountains"

Have fun and let's see what Jeremy has to say about this!

Peter Golemme thanks Peter! This is way too difficult to me now, but I'll try to follow your advice!

Dagmar Cool you are getting into modes! 

Use the Dorian scale over a ii7 chord because the most important notes of that scale are the R 3 5 and 7th or the ii7 chord tones (for Dm7 that's D F A C).  They match up beautifully. 

I always tell beginner improvisers to focus their improvisation on the chord notes and use the scale (in this case Dorian) to walk between the chord tones (passing notes as you suggested).    

Same holds true for the V7 chord.  If you use the Mixolydian mode over the V7 chord the R 3 5 and 7th notes of the Mixo scale are the chord tones (for G7 that's G B D F). 

Note - Both scales have the same NOTES but your focus notes are different because the R 3 5 and 7th notes are different.  

Linda Gould yes, I know. But my thinking is classicly trained, so I usually think in the key signature, functional theory, diatonic or chromatic. To me it didn't make sense to think "d dorian, G mixo" because when I am in the key of C I can just think C all over the place. Why change it for every chord? Especially because you don't neccesserily have to start on G on a G chord, so, "G mixolydian" can still start on C, which is C major then", so why call it different? Beethoven wouldn't have thought "Mixolydian". He's in a key signature, and he uses chord notes and passing notes. 
So to me, a piece in C major uses the C major scale, my ear guides me.
Also for me modes are a melodic/sound concept, I understand them as key signatures, like "a happy piece in G major, a sad piece in a minor, a medieval sounding piece in d dorian" etc. Jazz-talk to me sounded like "ok, we switch the key signature in our mind every chord, but same time transpose it so that we switch the switch to no switch because there is no switch as these are diatonic chords". 

But after this video here, I now can understand why "d dorian" might be useful to think in Jazz. Because in his example the key is C major, but it changes all the time. So instead of having to think "I am In C major, there is a d chord, is it diatonic to C or am I in another key? If I am in a different key, what key is this minor 7th chord the ii7 of?" it can be quicker to think "same name scale as the chord with #6".

He also was the first person who said "or you can think C major". And not "YOU MUST USE DORIAN". So thanks for that, because I think the bridge between classical theory thinking and Jazz thinking is very important when you are trained in one or the other. I need explanations WHY to do things and I need them attatched to knowledge I already have. My classic music theory is probably a lot more than a regular student my grade, and it seems that the more I dive into classical concepts, the more difficult it is to understand Jazz, because it seems different at first, and whatever videos I kept watching I was like "Huh, but it's MUSIC too, it's triads and seventh chords, it's the same notes, why is everything different now, I don't get it".

This video here built a little bridge I was desperately missing, and helped me understand better.

I'd really wish for more Jazz theory explained for classical trained people. We have different vocabulary, understanding. Tiny things like "in classical you would think this way, we call it different, because xyz, but it's the same thing, no need to get confused" can probably fix many things in shortest time!
 

Linda Gould In your experience, do you think for ii-V7-I chord progression, Dorian-Mixolydian-Ionian scales simultaneously with the harmonic progression that guides the music towards its resolution? In other words, do you toggle between knowing that you're operating in the key center of I, but use your mode scale skills to improvise while in each of the ii, V7, and I parts of the music?

Dagmar Like you I was classically trained and making the leap to thinking like a jazz pianist seemed like the Grand Canyon.  My jazz teachers talked in a foreign language.  Now (25 years later) I look at classical music like jazz pieces.  I chord them and transpose them and generally learn them at a deeper level than I used to.  I found jazz theory helped me to understand Mozart, Beethoven and Brahms more than classical theory because it seemed more logical to me.  

If you play a piece like Scarborough Fair a classical player may think of it as being in D minor whereas a jazz/chord player will think of it as D Dorian which is a big but subtle difference. 

In classical training we spend a lot of time learning the notes of a piece and learning it's technical tricky spots.  Form is often not at the forefront .  In Jazz we immediately see a piece full of ii-V-I progressions moving between key centers and we bring our own technique into how we play it.  The V7 chord is the spotlight that tells you what key center you are currently in. The forefront is the form and which scales and chord extensions we are going to bring into that form comes second.  If thinking C major gives you a sense of relief and you use chord notes and passing tones, that works!, especially if you have all your classical training behind you.  Thinking in modes is more subtle and happens later.    

I understand your pain and you are on the right track...

David Great question.  Initially when I teach ii-V-I progressions we use the mixolydian scale over the whole progression.  It sounds great and is not too overwhelming. I have a fun exercise that goes through all 12 keys.  That takes awhile to absorb and after it becomes comfortable and somewhat second nature, then we start to be aware that there are modes that we can play around with.  What does this same exercise sound like with the Dorian mode played over top?  What if you play Ionian over the whole progression?  Only by comparing and trying out crazy things do you start to hear the subtle differences and be able to use them.  

The short answer is I (and all jazz players) are aware of our key centers and then we just play like a kid in a playground.  Oscar Peterson said it beautifully when asked about chords and what he thought about and he said "at first I thought about it theoretically (he was classically trained) but now I just feel shapes all over the piano".