Group 3

Priya Viseskul We'll get that file link fixed. Meanwhile, here it is: Schubert MM 6 

Do check out all 6 Moment Musicaux! They're more approachable than even the impromptus, but just as rich musically.

Hi Simon Payne - no need to be anxious, and you're certainly not inconveniencing anyone. The way this is designed, everyone can engage at whatever level of "intensity" works for them. I understand there's a lot of theory required to be able to analyze a whole piece by Schubert, but perhaps if you keep things smaller scale – targeting a phrase by Schubert you have questions about, and growing from there – you might still be able to find the next couple of weeks fruitful.

If you give me a better idea of where you're at with piano/ music theory, I could come up with an assignment more tailored for you – and I'm sure there are others who would appreciate it too. Let me know what you think.

Sheetal Patel I'm excited to be a part of your first foray into Schubert! I think a lot of us (me included) are juggling things these two weeks, but I believe it will be rewarding even if you just commit the little bit of time you have to it!
Have you taken a look at the assignment piece? Do you have any other pieces by Schubert you've heard that you adore?
I can help with whatever theory questions you have. Schubert is nice for studying harmony because the musical textures can be very simple/straightforward, including many obvious triads in the main key, which means when he ventures off somewhere it's quite evident just from looking at the page. The question then is, where is he going, and why (meaning, for what emotional effect)?

Thank you Ben Laude . Yes I have printed the music looked at the assignment and need to go back to basics though I could probably number the chords, the rest am planning on speed learning. To be honest and apologies for my ignorance but I do not know any pieces by Schubert and don't recognise anything I have heard so far! Personally I am very biased towards certain composers and am keeping an open mind :).  I shall drop this group a note when I have questions which I am sure I will have soon! 

Hi Amy , thanks for bringing some energy to Group 3! And I'm sorry, as it appears I've been neglecting you all a little in favor of the other, louder, groups.
The First Impromptu is amazing - I think probably the longest, and it does get harder and harder as it goes along. But SO worth it. Even if you just work on a couple pages these two weeks – especially in the context of all the harmony we'll be looking at – I think it can be very eye-opening (ear-opening?).

Ben Laude You're welcome! Also, we've met a couple of times at pianoSonoma. :-) I am trying to analyze the MM#6 and it's sure a good workout for the brain! I've done RCM theory through Level 9, but it's been a while. I think I need to take it slow, in small chunks, labeling the obvious things first, although I'm not getting very far even doing that! Is the chord in m.2, leading to m. 3, some kind of suspended chord? 

Amy Oh yes I remembrer! Nice to "meet" you again here.

It looks like measures 2-3 but I think you're actually talking about 1-2. That's just a quarter note pick-up before the first bar.

You're correct that it's a suspension: The C in the soprano from said pick-up chord (the very first A-flat chord) is "suspended" into bar 1, so the C becomes dissonant (and is not a chord tone). That C then resolves to B-flat in bar 2. You could also call it an accent passing tone, but in any case the C doesn't belong to that chord with D-flat in the bass. If you stack the resolved chord in thirds, you'll see it's a B-flat minor7 chord, or ii7 in A-flat. It's in first inversion (Db in bass) which we label 6/5 (the intervals created above the bass), so all of measures 1-2 should be labeled with just one symbol: ii 6/5. And you can write 7-6/5 (the 7 representing the suspended note).

This will become much clearer when I show it on camera/ and write it down on a staff. It's hard to type all these things out!

theoryman1  Off to a slow start, yes, but I believe in Group 3!

I think I could convince you to like Schubert, but sometimes our tastes are pretty fixed (mine seem to be with certain repertoire, no doubt). I do think Schubert is either played too, without enough sensitivity to all the fine details – especially the chromatic versatility – or it's played too flexibly, without regard for the steady unfolding/flowering of emotion and drama. It's also hard to keep a listener (or even performers themselves) engaged for the music's "heavenly lengths."

Anyway - by "marking" cadences, I just mean labeling them. Specifically "Half Cadences" (resting on V) and "Perfect Authentic Cadences" that end strongly V-I. Doing so will help clarify the phrase structure, and also draw your attention to modulations, and the cadences in the new key area (spoiler alert).
Here's a link to an open source music theory site with a good description of cadences and phrase structure in these terms: https://viva.pressbooks.pub/openmusictheory/chapter/intro-to-harmony/
Let me know if that's helpful and if you have any Qs!

Ben Laude yes, very helpful, thanks. I recognize when these happen but I didn't know they had a proper name.

theoryman1 Yes the names are pretty arbitrary, and honestly most practicing musicians I know don't actively think in these terms. But it's the standard terminology among theorists and worth knowing (but most importantly, these things should be heard/felt - which seems like you already have taken care of).

Serene It's definitely a worthwhile step to begin by just labeling vertical harmonies and then "converting" them to roman numerals (which indicate function) later on. Just be careful! Because if you're looking at every chord as an isolated island, then you'll have trouble with the "conversion." The context of each chord matters: for example, in bar 12, you are likely to call that a "III" chord, but functionally it's actually the dominant of F minor (V of vi). That's a particularly difficult few bars, but you see my point. I'll try to help you make sense of that next level of analysis! Take a look through my analysis if you want, and let me know what questions you have.

 Two quick corrections on my analysis:

1. Bar 35: should read "viiº7", not "iiº7"
2. Bars 45-46: should read "IAC" (Imperfect Authentic Cadence), not "PAC." Good teachable moment here: a PAC is the strongest cadential resolution of V-I, because there's scale degree (sd) 5 moving to 1 in the bass, and also sd 7 or 2 resolving to 1 in the soprano. In this cadence, you do get 5-1 in the bass, but the soprano falls from 4 to 3! IACs are less conclusive than PACs, and that's true of what you see here: the phrase continues with this stern movement to the vi chord.

Ben Laude 

Thank you, Ben. Looking forward to the zoom meeting later. 

Ben Laude I'm having trouble even identifying the chords, maybe I'm approaching it wrong. The 2nd chord you have labeled a ii. I see a Db major 7 resolving to a Db major 6, so it would be a IV. Measure 2 beat 3 looks like an Eb dominant 7 add 9 to me, which would be a V, and that resolves to 1, making it a PAC. What am I doing wrong?

Hi Sheetal Patel - I understand that I'm teaching very advanced concepts, and not everyone is going to grasp everything – or even basic things – about it. But what you said is still encouraging: you're watching, paying attention, listening, etc, and you're starting to grasp new things you hadn't before. That's all that matters.

I don't want you to feel overloaded with everything though. What matters is where you are with your analytic understanding, and what the next step is that you can take. If you have a question, no matter how basic, that I can help you with to take that next step, or next steps, try to let me know before the call!

I expect the Zoom call to last 90 minutes, but I'm not sure. I know I'll have a lot to say, and I imagine there will be plenty of questions, so it could even go longer.