Week 2 Thread: The Era of Haydn and Mozart! 
Welcome to the Main Thread for the third week of "Mozart & Haydn - Music from the 18th Century" challenge!
- Make sure you've read the guidelines before replying (<- click)
- Watch the kickoff livestream! (<- click)
This week, we will talk about the different ways composers were trained during the 18th century and how they could achieve such high productivity through schemas and patterns
Look at a different piece by the same composer you are studying and try to compare the music to the new piece you are practicing now.
If you are ready, post a short clip of the patterns you found in your music! One of the ways we grow is through feedback and self-reflection.
Pick a piece from the suggested repertoire according to your level or share any piece written during the 18th century that you have been working on!
If you want to describe your process, feel free to use the following template.
- Piece(s) you have been working on:
- Things you found easy:
- Things you found difficult:
Happy sharing 
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Here is the pdf of one of the exercises I presented: this is about the rule of the octave according to Furno
https://partimenti.org/partimenti/collections/furno/the_method_1817.pdf
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And this is a pdf from the book "Music in the Galant Style" that dr. Gjerdingen has on partimenti.org.
If you would like to try some schemas, I would suggest you just try to use one schema at a time and for quite a while, until you have memorized it well. And then start adding another one. https://partimenti.org/schemas/collections/galant/schema_prototypes.pdf
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Antonella Di Giulio I have looked at the Romanesca.
Please clarify that on chord 2, 7 = B, 3 = E, 6 = A, and 1 = C, i.e. on the assumption that this is in C major. This would be a second inversion of a mediant chord with an added fourth.
The alternative would be that the numbers build up from B like a figured bass, so that 3 = D, 6 = G, and 5 = F, which would be a diminished chord with an added 6th?
I am missing something?
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Roy James-Pike More than to chords that stand on their own, the concern back then was about how the voices go from one harmony to the next.
Yes, 1= C in the key of C major, 1= G in the key of G major. But the 3-6 are like in figured bass.
So, the second chord would have
7 (for instance B) at the bass and 5IG) on the top + 3-6 as in figured bass (D-G)...
Did you take a look at the rule of the octave?
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Antonella Di Giulio Thank you. That makes so much sense. They are now sounding far less post-modern!
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Antonella Di Giulio I knew the non-consecutive rule of the octave and fifths. I have started to read the treatise and I am going to work through it at the piano to understand the concepts.
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Roy James-Pike that is awesome! It is the best way to improve the understanding of such concepts.
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and this is a pdf of the musical game :)
https://s9.imslp.org/files/imglnks/usimg/b/bc/IMSLP20432-PMLP47543-mozart_-_dice_waltz.pdf
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Antonella Di Giulio This is so interesting to see how Mozart tabulated copioulsy the range chords and their delivery that must have formed part of his learning as a child, and which were no doubt taken from chordal progressions taught to him.
The following comment did not come from a reliable source but I was told, when in Salzburg, that the received view that Mozart was not paid well by the aristocracy was not at all true but that he loved to gamble. No doubt, he borrowed too to attempt to pay his gambling debts, which was then spent on more gambing, rather than paying his debts. Dice and card games were his demise and led to his abject poverty, arguably.
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Roy James-Pike I do not know exactly, but yes... he was probably paid well. However, things were changing for musicians and Mozart was attempting to have more independence. These were possibly the reasons for his arguments with his father.
Now, if you look for example at things like Czerny's etudes (which were obviously written much later), you can have an idea about how chords and improvisation were taught back then. I use these etudes in a very unique way with my students.
They first learn an etude, then we steal the chords at the left hand and I ask them to compose their own etude by writing a nice right-hand melody. And so... if you learn a specific model, you can modify that model at will.
For example, look at how new age composers write their pieces: most of the pieces have the same harmonic progression and what changes are rhythm, key, tempo.
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Antonella Di Giulio One day I intend to read more about the teaching role of 'Pappa Haydn' [Michael Haydn] for Mozart. It is unlikely that Leopold would have taken on that role, albeit he would have supervised his practice to the power 'n'.
I used to explain to the parents of the younger flute students that their children needed their help and supervision to make sure the practices included their lesson materials, whether the parents understood the musical issues or not. It was a good way of leading the younger students to their own independent practice.
I loved doing the Czerny 101 studies and I even started the School of Velocity. Good tip on using the 101 as a basic for analysis and then improvisation. Thanks!
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And for those interested in seeing how such training would work today, watch this... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiCI6JVVVk0
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Antonella Di Giulio Just seen this... I should have watched this before writing my comment above about the chord structures! I shall watch this tomorrow.
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Antonella Di Giulio said:
I would have two main suggestions for this: I think it would sound a bit more fluent if you would think in longer sentences. Maybe you might remember what I suggested to Roy in last week's thread.I actually had a little of an Aha! moment while working on this suggestion.
I listened again (quite a few times actually :)) and tried to analyze what I don't like, and I guess it might seem obvious to you, but I realized that I think it is that there is no direction (dynamically and expressionally) outlining longer phrases (could be more than the 4 you suggested).
This would tell a larger "story" and make the piece, as a whole (opposed to listening to a single measure/phrase), more interesting (yeah, I know it's only 16 bars, and with many repeats :D, but I work with what I have).
This realization was not the Aha! moment though, it was that staccato and leggero (not sure how it's spelled, my piano teacher used it a lot when I was a kid to imply very light legato) have very little "direction" in them compared to legato. At least in the physical sense, it is much easier to create when playing legato. I turned to playing exaggerated legato to create and explore different phrasing (that I couldn't create earlier because of the technical difficulty without the legato) and then practice adding lighter leggero or even staccato like gradually where needed later, within my limitations of course.
Sorry if this is trivial, but I thought you might have some more insight regarding this process.
Thanks again :)
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Roy it is not trivial at all! It is in fact amazing what you discovered.
that is the basic most important point I teach to my students.
I always suggest them to play everything legato at first and then staccato with the legato in mind.
Wonderful work!
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Antonella Di Giulio yes, I guess this one line of your sums it much more clearly :) happy to know I'm in the right direction.
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Practiced through the first movement of the Galuppi sonata. Have not been able to play the last 2 pages through without some mistakes (lots of trills!) hence the pieced together video. My IMSLP score indicates some pedaling on the quarter notes…trying to figure out how much is appropriate. Also need smoother trills (with some shape maybe?) as some are quite long.
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Vidhya Bashyam Oooh! I like it! Your ornaments are actually quite lovely, as is the piece, so easy to imagine being played in an 18th century salon. I don’t know about you, but I often spend an inordinate amount of time practicing trills slowly, only to realize that they turn into completely different animals at a faster tempo.
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Vidhya Bashyam really gentle and beautiful :)
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Vidhya Bashyam you play beautifully, Vidhya!
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Vidhya Bashyam is Beautiful! Good job.... Maybe the left hand ahould be a bit quiter? Otherwise, it seems to interfere with the beautiful right hand. Also... when you have those slurred notes, imagine somebody sighing :) The first note louder, the second softer. Keep working on it... it will be a very beautiful performance at the end of this challenge.
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Vidhya Bashyam I'm enjoying this piece and your playing very much! I thought those trills were lovely.
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Antonella Di Giulio Thank you! Will keep working through it.
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Monika Tusnady Thank you! I agree that slow practice is so helpful. What was also helpful was re-watching your beautiful trills!
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Roy Thanks Roy!
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