Piano Manufacturers and Brands: A discussion!

Noel Nguyen Yes. I thought it was light but also stiff, and the tone was "brighter" than what I was looking for; I generally prefer European pianos.

Maria I agree that its tone is not for everybody. Extreme in the darkness and extreme in the brightness at the same time. I compare it to listening to a recording with an equalizer on which the bass and treble have been ramped up. Yet I love this sound, rich and vibrant.

Noel Nguyen Yeah, the 7 foot and up have the Renner action and those are great.

Maria 

My very personal choices:

JS Bach: Yamaha CFX

Mozart: Bösendorfer 225

Beethoven: Hamburg Steinway D

Schubert: M&H A

Schumann, Scriabin, Ravel, Debussy: SK-EX

Chopin: M&H BB 

Brahms : M&H CC

Liszt: Fazioli F308

Rachmaninoff: M&H CC and Baldwin SD-10

Prokofiev: Bechstein D282

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I only went with pianos I have actually played/tried. Sorry for the overrepresentation (perhaps!) of M&H, but it just happens to be one of my very favorite brands.

Noel Nguyen Bechstein D282

That's probably the most underrated concert grand there is.

Noel Nguyen I do not think Mason and Hamlin works well for Schubert or Chopin. Fazioli for Liszt is interesting. I think Seilers are very versatile and work well for many composers. 

Maria It's ok to disagree, and I wholeheartedly do with you about those matters based on personal taste AND experience. kindly😁. I can agree that I have particular tastes.

Peter Lemken, clavierhaus Totally agreed. I would be very happy to play and record any repertoire on it, certainly not just Prokofieff. And I was quite upset when all the contestants who chose it at the lastest Chopin competition were eliminated early.

Noel Nguyen said:

And I was quite upset when all the contestants who chose it at the lastest Chopin competition were eliminated early.

Me too!

Noel  I agree that we have different tastes! I tend to prefer European pianos to American pianos. 

Roger Ward How long is Steinway's apprentice program? 

Maria Hi Maria,  I believe it is two years. 

If you haven't been on a factory tour, I hope you can go.  I would have liked to try a few of the tasks, like sanding the case, key balancing, gluing the wooded layers, wrapping the wood around the steel form, yet I completely understand why they would not want to allow a person like me doing it.  I am lucky enough to get a tour!!

Roger Ward Steinway NY has announced an apprenticeship program some time in 2020 or so. Since then, one hasn't heard anything about that, so I guess they have returned to the typical "Put someone on a station with a mentor and get him to be productive as fast as possible" regimen.

Hamburg, on the other hand, has a truly outstanding apprenticeship program with 3.5 years and the option to add another two years to become a master piano builder.

Steinway NY has some kind of teaching collaboration with Oberlin college in Ohio, but details are nonexistent on the website of the college.

It's a sad state of affairs that North Bennett street school in Boston with two 9 month courses is the best option in the US to become a piano technician.

When you read "Grand Obsession" with this in mind then it becomes clear why all the mentioned technicians think of themself as masters of the universe and all of them use chemical voodoo to reach a hypothetic objective in terms of voicing a piano.

With the result, of course, that in the end the hammers are dead and needed full replacement.

Steinway, unfortunately, plays a major role in establishing the chemical voodoo thinking. Their preparation of a grand piano consists of fully lacquering a hammer "to give it foundation" and then start needling to, well, do something.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LKw8tds7is is not for the weak. I watch this and start weeping about the full and systematic destruction of the interplay between Lanolin and Keratin. And every US technician thinks that this is the way to voice a piano.

It's not, at least not when you either have a European or Japanese background as technician.

Roger Ward I personally would like to go on tours of the Seiler and Bösendorfer factories. 

Maria Do it!!  

Roger Ward I hope to at some point.

Peter Lemken, clavierhaus You make several points that sparked my interest.  You sound like an entrepreneur.

If I were interested in the apprentice program, I would not rely on website information or announcements. 

The world works from a series of personal relationships, not from websites or YouTube/Tiktoc videos. 

Website announcements will attract likely hundreds/thousands of people and each applicant would need to be vetted, and that would take a company many hours.  It is a huge expense.  Since Steinway has probably a few such positions (they are not an amusement park)  enhancing personal and professional relationships to get in the door would be better.  From a business view, Steinway has several good filters, as all high achieving companies.

I am not a technician and I know next to nothing on the use of lanolin and karatin.  But you might have a great business idea.  Why don't you form partners, fully establish your method, and set up manufacturing?  "Lemken Pianos" has a nice, refined ring to it. 

The other idea is establishing a tuner school.  I assume most tuners learn by closely modeling what their teachers do.  Modeling is great, but does nothing for industry standardization.  "Lemken School of Piano Tuning" 🤓

Roger Ward I believe his brand is Clavierhaus, since I see a nice "clavierhaus.at" logo/sticker on the side of his piano in his recording. In any case he is extremely knowledgeable in that field indeed. I guess the american techs that he criticized may disagree with his views, but that doesn't matter. It's expert opinion vs expert opinion. It's up to the customer to inform themselves sufficiently to decide whom to trust.

Roger Ward He owns a piano shop, Clavierhaus. I don't think Peter was interested in the Steinway apprentice program, and neither am I. 

Lanolin and keratin are both found in wool felt. Keratin is the protein that forms the fibers, and lanolin is the oil found in wool. I believe that the hardener the tech in the video was applying to the hammer felt would damage the felt. 

He doesn't manufacture pianos, he sells them. 

Maria I know, I was simply saying he does have a brand. I just read Roger's post too fast.