Piano Manufacturers and Brands: A discussion!

Maria Those parameters can be adapted by any competent technician within a wide range of adjustments. The standard settings are basically the same across all brands.

Peter Lemken, clavierhaus What I meant is that it seems to me like some pianos' keys are wider than others. I know that the key depth can be adjusted.

Maria I don't think there are keyboards with different key width around, simply because it is desirable for pianists to have a uniform scale of the keyboard. But also, because there few manufacturers of keyboards left outside of Yamaha and Kawai who produce their own.

Steinway is said to have produced a slightly smaller keyboard for Josef Hoffman, but this rumor cannot be confirmed, because such a keyboard has never been spotted anywhere.

The one exception is Chickering. They manufactured a keyboard in the early 20th century that had a slightly different spacing between black and white keys; I have played two Chickerings from that era and they both felt weird.

Maria I heard that pre-1990 M&H have shorter black keys than standard. I played on one last year, didn't feel any difference.

Peter Lemken, clavierhaus I didn't mean a significant difference, it just seemed to me like Steinways, for example, had slightly wider keys than Brodmanns. 

 I just read that there is a 3 mm difference in octave width across brands. 

Maria I had forgotten about old Chickering pianos. The black keys seemed to be much easier to grab large chords.  There was manufacturer that claimed to have drop-in replacement keyboards that fit a wide range of grand pianos for pianist with smaller hand-spans.  It has been between 10 to 20 years ago, but I believe Steinbuhler was the manufacturer.  Last year, another company (Narrow Keys) started producing complete digital keyboard instruments for those with smaller hand-spans.  For home great options; however, I don't know how practical it is for most people to count on being able gain access to such acoustic or digital instruments for lessons or performances.  That is why I do play Yamaha pianos whenever I can in order to keep my touch adapted to them.   

Leon Rasberry My concern with stretto keyboards would be a pianist being unable to play a stretto piano in concert, and not being able to play a standard piano because he or she is out of practice. I meant slight variation, not stretto/narrow keyboards. 

Maria Salem College in NC has a small collection of pianos with varying key width. You could probably contact Barbara Lister-Sink if you wanted all the details. Our Baldwin 6-foot has slightly narrower keys, making Chopin and 10ths easier. My sister's Boston by contrast has what I suppose is the maximum width and those wide arpeggios really become a stretch. And then I have a friend with a gorgeous Steinway, I think 7 foot, from the 1930s, but its keys are even narrower, so I don't like to practice things with big jumps and chords like Rachmaninoff on it because of having to readjust. 

Maria Also, Josef Hoffman had a custom-built piano with narrower keys to accommodate his smaller hands. 

Andrew Smith said:
Salem College in NC has a small collection of pianos with varying key width. You could probably contact Barbara Lister-Sink if you wanted all the details.

Andrew Smith said:
Also, Josef Hoffman had a custom-built piano with narrower keys to accommodate his smaller hands.

 I wasn't asking about stretto keyboards. 

Andrew Smith said:
Our Baldwin 6-foot has slightly narrower keys, making Chopin and 10ths easier. My sister's Boston by contrast has what I suppose is the maximum width and those wide arpeggios really become a stretch. And then I have a friend with a gorgeous Steinway, I think 7 foot, from the 1930s, but its keys are even narrower, so I don't like to practice things with big jumps and chords like Rachmaninoff on it because of having to readjust. 

 That is interesting. I played a 1910s Steinway once that had very narrow keys and I kept making mistakes because I was used to wider keys. 

Maria et al:

I am completely confused now. By what definition would you describe wider/narrower keys, but not addressing stretto keyboards? What measure would calipers take to come up with a comparable number that would somehow make a noticeable difference?

I am aware of the Josef Hoffman keyboard (even though its physical existence is in doubt by some, including me), I know about Chickering's different spacing. 

Then I hear stories about older Steinways that supposedly have different keyboards from either today or much earlier such as my two from 1886/87. This I also doubt.

So, can someone please shed a light ideally by an illustration and some source to get to the bottom of things in a non-hearsay way, please? 

Peter Lemken, clavierhaus I was addressing stretto keyboards, just not specifically. 

I was mostly interested in whether anyone else felt like it was, for example, easier to reach a 10th on a Steinway then a Bechstein.

I am also confused by this conversation. 

Maria New York Steinways used to have narrower keys than German Steinways.  My piano teachers wife had a New York Steinway for that reason (her hands were small but she was an amazing pianist) and all of us with smaller hands loved it.  I have a Yamaha CF grand with standard keys, a Yamaha G2 grand retrofitted with D.S. 5.5 keys and the Narrow Keys digital 5.5 piano.  I can go between all the keyboards and adjust quickly.  The more I play the narrow keys the more I am refining my technique.  I can play a lot more of the piano literature on narrow keys but adjust to large keys if I have to play on them.  

Linda Gould I seriously doubt all that.

I got two older NY Steinways, currently have a Hamburg B in commission and I used to own a Yamaha CF as well.

I am confident that all of them have identical key width.

Pull out your calipers and let us know what there is in terms of measurable difference across the named models that are consistently outside of manufacturing tolerance.

Peter Lemken, clavierhaus Peter, I told Maria in one of my replies that I have in fact recently played a 1930s Steinway whose keys are significantly narrower than modern ones. And the 6-foot Baldwin in our home is a little narrower than modern Steinways. So it is a thing. However, I am not sure what Maria means by stretto keyboards, because she inquired about different widths and I told her Salem college has pianos specifically designed with different width keys but then Maria said she wasn't asking about stretto when I mentioned the Salem collection. But the gist/fact of the matter is that there are pianos with different key widths-- some width differences are only marginal, but some are large enough to affect one's playing. 

Andrew Smith I meant that I didn't specifically mean major, deliberate differences. I also didn't mean that I was looking for a narrow-keyed piano. I was mainly referring to marginal differences. 

Maria Ah, got it. Thanks for clarifying. 

Andrew Smith I am aware that I phrased things strangely. 

Regarding Hofmann's custom built pianos, the only thing I could find in terms of more or less official info is this:

https://www.steinway.com/artists/josef-hofmann#:~:text=Hofmann%20had%20small%20but%20exceptionally,slope%20from%20rear%20to%20front.

Regardless, it's a fascinating topic, considering his legendary virtuosity. I'd certainly want a custom sized keyboard, even though I have normal sized hands. Why not optimize? It's not like I'll need to travel with my piano. I just want to occasionally perform and record at home.

Noel Nguyen PASK mentions Hoffmann on their website:

https://paskpiano.org/keyboard-history/

Peter Lemken, clavierhaus Hi Peter, I wish I could.  We did measure the keys in the 1970s as they looked quite different and were surprised they were different.  That was one of the moments that led to me realizing smaller hands would play better on narrower keys.  I'll look through my archives to see if I can find a picture of the two keyboards.  They were owned by Robin and Winnifred Wood at the Victoria Conservatory of Music in Victoria Canada.  Are your two Steinways from different factories?