Balance in: Writing on a score vs just reading.

Edit: here is an update to my question to be a little bit more clear what Iā€™m asking for.

I would love to see other people who have marked up their scores and see what theyā€™ve used. Iā€™m just just curious in seeing other peoples work and what theyā€™ve done to analyze their sheet music. Iā€™m not really looking for a theory lesson. This is more of a desire to open my mind by seeing what other people do.

 

so if anybody can share an image of their marked up scores, new or old. And Iā€™d be specially interested in people that use different colors and are really organized. But I am very interested in seeing any and all.

ā€”ā€”ā€”ā€”ā€”ā€”ā€”
 

 

old question:

I would really like to start writing on sheet music for analysis. I am wondering what the balance of writing on a sheet vs analyzing on the fly in my head. I still learning to sight read, but I also care about the harmonic analysis. 
 

I have a Bach piece: little prelude in c minor, this is a lot easier to read and see then other pieces I am working on. The things I care about are seeing the inversions of triads, the 5th in bass vs 3rd. Dim and 7th shapes with missing 3rd or 5th and I find it really hard to see dim chords at least, right now. I am also studying a showcase piece by Grieg. Itā€™s a Nocturne 54 no 4. This one is a lot harder to really see anything, itā€™s easy to memorize, but then I stop looking at sheet music. 

 

I am just looking for a system to follow. Is there anyone that has a system they are willing to share? I am looking for ideas so anything goes.

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    • rada neal
    • rada_neal
    • 9 mths ago
    • Reported - view

    I would say the best system is repetition and being creative. Try your ideas and see what you like and see how you can apply that creativity to your learning. Have fun:)

    Like 1
      • Michael Bruce
      • Software Architect - but.. really a musician.
      • Michael_Bruce
      • 9 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      rada neal this is probably the most practical answer here. I need to just quit being afraid of marking up the sheet and Iā€™m sure I will find something eventually. The good news is my teacher talked me into buying a 12 inch iPad Pro and I have the Apple Pencil and Iā€™m able to write on scores really easily and erase and add and do whatever. 

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      • rada neal
      • rada_neal
      • 9 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Michael Bruce I bought an IPad Pro/pencil as well but so far am faster at the old fashioned way. Hopefully this year I will advance those skills and the technology will streamline my songs for me.

      Like 1
      • Michael Bruce
      • Software Architect - but.. really a musician.
      • Michael_Bruce
      • 9 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      rada neal there is nothing that beats real paper. Nothing.

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      • rada neal
      • rada_neal
      • 9 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Michael Bruce I'm of the same mind set here:)

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    • Albert
    • Albert
    • 9 mths ago
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    If the harmonies arenā€™t yet jumping out at you, Iā€™d highly recommend writing them in. If you donā€™t wish to mark up printed editions too much, you can always make a paper or digital copy. Digital sheet music has the advantage of offering layers, so you can create a layer just for the harmonic analysis and switch it off if you no longer need it.

    With practice, youā€™ll eventually get to the point where youā€™ll recognize the common harmonies such as all the triads and most seventh chords more or less at a glance. Best of luck!

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      • Michael Bruce
      • Software Architect - but.. really a musician.
      • Michael_Bruce
      • 9 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Albert iā€™d be really interested in seeing examples of what other people have done do you know where I could find some examples or perhaps can you send me a couple of examples?

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      • Albert
      • Albert
      • 9 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      I recommend to students to start with just recognizing the chords and writing in the chord names (e.g., C maj, G7, D min7, etc.). In pop and jazz itā€™s common practice to write the chord names above the staff, but you can also write them below the staff as is standard for analyzing classical music.

      Once you become fluent in this, you can start with Roman numeral analysis if you wish.

      Hereā€™s an example of chords in pop music: https://www.virtualsheetmusic.com/score/HL-93051.html

      The notation for pop and jazz is a bit different in that A/C# for example means an A major triad with C# in the bassā€”in other words, A major in 1st inversion.

      In classical Roman numeral analysis, the A major triad in 1st inversion would be II63: II because A is the 2nd note of the G major scale (the key of this song), and uppercase Roman numeral 2 (II) since itā€™s major and 63 (6 written above the 3) because itā€™s in 1st inversion.

      The 6 and 3 represent the intervals above the bass note C#: C# to A is a 6th, and C# to E is a 3rd.

      Hereā€™s a step-by-step explanation of Roman numeral analysis: https://www.musictheory.net/lessons/44

      If thatā€™s too much for now, donā€™t worry. In that case Iā€™d just stick with the chord names and save Roman numeral analysis for later in your studies. With practice it will become second nature to you.

      Hope this helps and I wish you all the best!

      Like 2
    • Kim M
    • tonebase_user.33
    • 9 mths ago
    • Reported - view

    Hello.  I almost always do harmonic analysis right on my score as I am learning a piece.  If I want to do a lot of markup, I will make a photocopy and do the analysis there.   Sometimes I even use coloured pencils to highlight certain progressions, or structure, etc.  I do this mainly because it enriches my relationship with the piece!  But it helps me learn it too.  And over time, it helps with sight reading and develops my ear.  

    Like 1
      • Michael Bruce
      • Software Architect - but.. really a musician.
      • Michael_Bruce
      • 9 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Kim M this is really cool. This is my goal as well to even use different colors. Would you be open to let me see some of your work that youā€™ve done? Maybe I can get a few ideas and save a bit of time trying to figure all of the creative, artistic ways of harmonic analysis

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    • Mariela
    • Mariela
    • 9 mths ago
    • Reported - view

    Hi Michael. After reading you, I looked at tonebase home page for Theory courses with Ben Laude. There are 3 different courses. I recommend you start looking at these as you are already in tonebase. Of the 3 courses I've only watched 1 (Basic theory, it's very good!)

    Like 1
      • Michael Bruce
      • Software Architect - but.. really a musician.
      • Michael_Bruce
      • 9 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Mariela Believe it or not, Iā€™m actually pretty good with theory, and thatā€™s the only reason I could read music as good as I can already. I started out as a bier player on guitar and started playing classical piano couple years ago being self taught, and I finally found a good teacher and thatā€™s where Iā€™m at right now, so as far as basic theory, I donā€™t think thatā€™s what Iā€™m looking for. Iā€™m looking for more ways to write on the score that helps and what people do As far as writing on the sheet versus site reading, I was just wondering if thereā€™s a balance or does it slow down eventually with how much you write on the score.

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  • I donā€™t like to muck up my good scores with all that. I make copies for study, or use a cheap publication like Kalmus, or schirmer šŸ‘

    Like 1
      • Michael Bruce
      • Software Architect - but.. really a musician.
      • Michael_Bruce
      • 9 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Christopher Macy actually, Iā€™ve been buying Henle books and I was always afraid to write on this but now Iā€™m using an iPad Pro 12 inch and I have the Apple Pencil so this is going to make writing on scores a lot easier and at least so I can practice

      Like 1
  • If you are wanting concise analysis annotations in the music that you are using to learn and play, you may prefer "root / quality chord symbols" (ie. G, Cm, D7/A etc.). Essentially, they are equivalent of the chords over the top of a lead sheet or what some people call the "guitar chords" in a guitar / vocals / piano format. The other common approach is 'functional chord symbols" (often also called roman numeral analysis). Roman numerals are good for conveying what is going on horizontally within the key, with the various layers (voices) forming chords that move toward cadence points. Root / quality symbols give much of the same information but are more useful for having an immediate reference to what is literally going on vertically in any particular moment (though they d not explain how these chords are interacting with each other in the key).  A command of both systems is very important for late intermediate studies and beyond but you can elect to use them as you see fit in your score for better understanding the music you are playing.

     

    In my experience, my students tend to favor using root / quality chord symbols in their music for quick reminders. For instance, rather than marking a chord's function as V4/3 in C Major , they will simply write G7/D. This acts as a quick reminder and they can glance at the notes on the staff to remind themselves of the particular way it is voiced. 

     

    As another person suggested, you can try things and see what works best for you. There is nothing wrong with combining elements of functional symbols and chord / quality symbols (or other systems) when it is for your own understanding. In general though, the more streamlined you keep any annotations, the more effective you will find them while you are playing. For a rigorous analysis of any kind, I recommend that my students use a separate copy than the one they are learning / performing with.

    Like 1
      • Michael Bruce
      • Software Architect - but.. really a musician.
      • Michael_Bruce
      • 9 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Dustin Anderson thank you for your response. As I've been asking everybody else, do you have any examples that you'd be willing to share so I can just get some ideas?

       

      I'm pretty familiar with the Nashville number system from playing guitar. I generally have a good grasp of hearing what part of the progression we're in, but it's not 100%. So writing that in is definitely helpful.

       

      I am working on the Grieg nocturne 54 no 4. There's a part that has these interesting movements and even with reading I typically only take the first couple notes and then I know it pattern it is. For instance, there is a couple areas that start with a 6th apart, so maybe The root is on the low and the 6th is on the high. This is the first notes in the bar and then I could kind of glance and see a pattern that moves around from the lower hand hitting this 7th degree. So a D7 and then the upper hand moving from a sharp 4. 5. 6. 7. But I'm not reading all those notes anymore. I just look at it and I can see the pattern. However, I don't know how I would write something like that. I don't know if I should go into all those little details there or just circle notes that tripped me up. I've already analyzed it so I get what it is. I just never wrote on the sheet and I definitely can't spot at that easy. So if I wrote something maybe it would help me spot it real quick but then I might not read it anymore. That's the thing. My issue is. I'm worried that I may not read it at all and I'm trying to focus on reading and learning considering I come from a by ear background.

       

      So I'm really just looking for some ideas. I really love to see what other people are doing.

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    • Michael Bruce 

       

      Okay, I think I have a better understanding of what you are asking. I found some notes on this piece from when I taught it to a student years ago and their copy indeed had some chord / quality symbols.  I have included a copy of pages 1 and 2 as a .pdf for you to view.  I hope this helps give you an idea =)

      This Notturno is a good example of precisely why my students often prefer the literal chord names.  Functional analysis would be challenging for most students at this performance level given the chromaticism and the repeated tritone motion that Grieg uses.  Since the main purpose of analysis for my students is to help them perceive structure for memory work and choosing which colours are special, they will often just make a note of the chords that are most important to their own playing and understanding.  

      P.S. Once again, I enjoyed your Chopin Waltz today from the End of the Year Challenge. Cheers!

  • Hello! Iā€™m a ā€œwriterā€ - I remember things better when Iā€™ve picked up a pencil and annotated a score, whether it is for harmonic analysis, keys, or interpretive ideas.  I always use another copy for this to keep my original copy in good condition.  I store my ā€œannotatedā€ scores/copies, and then if I come back to the piece at a later date, either for myself or a student,  I donā€™t need to work it all out again.  

    Like 1
      • Michael Bruce
      • Software Architect - but.. really a musician.
      • Michael_Bruce
      • 9 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Margaret Bland yeah, Iā€™m thinking this is a good idea as well for that reason. Would you be open to let me see a bit of your work as far as some sheets that you have done?

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    • Margaret Bland I do this as well!

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