Penelope Roskell - Ask me anything about “The Pillars of Piano Technique”

One of the most popular courses on tonebase is Penelope Roskell’s “Pillars of Piano Technique”. We encourage you to check out these lessons! If you have questions about the courses or about technique in general, please ask Penelope!

 

“The Pillars of Piano Technique”

 

(Excerpt)

 

 

How to participate

  • Ask your questions until Friday December 10th
  • Penelope will answer questions by December 17th
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  • Over the years I’ve mostly avoided works with rapid octave passages. However, during the pandemic, decided to embarque on more serious study habits!  Things that I never had time for due to work schedule.  (I’m a concert technician in Brazil) I’ve worked with most international artists and have observed closely how they play. Só having free time allowed me to calmly work on technique, principally Chopin etudes.  My question is…… in certain passage work, like the end of Liszt Sonata, or Chopin G minor ballade, where octaves are fingered , 3,4, and 5, I have managed to get quite a bit of speed.  But in earlier sections of Liszt sonata, where octaves jump, is there a specific practice technique generally accepted, which allows high speed jumping octaves?  Hand and wrist positions which are”always “ used in preparing and playing! 

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    • George Boyd There isn't really any consensus among pianists of hand positions that are always used.  Pianists often struggle with octave leaps because their arms seize up as they aim for accuracy.  I would aim for freedom of movement first (keeping the arm relaxed)  - if the arm is freer, you will gradually find that you play with a lot more accuracy too.  Practice quite slowly at first, and let the speed increase almost imperceptibly. Things to think about- keep your hand and wrist relaxed as you move between the octaves and think of the leaps as long jumps, not high jumps!

      Like
    • Victoria Chan
    • Super keen adult beginner
    • Victoria_Chan
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Hi Penelope, 

    I am an adult beginner (47 years old). I started playing the piano in April this year, and was lucky to have come across your book, The Complete Pianist, quite early on. And so I would like to think that though I haven't got a piano teacher, I am not too bad with my techniques. 

    I like playing rather advanced pieces for a beginner, as I just cannot resist trying out my all time favourite pieces.

    So far I have learned Chopin Waltz in A minor B.150, Chopin Waltz in B minor Op. 69 No. 2, and then a leap to Beethoven Pathétique, 2nd movement, Adagio Cantabile.

    I enjoy the challenge, and I am not discouraged by the difficulties at all. I take it slow and try to play each part well, and I am constantly honing my playing, and practising effectively. I study music theory too, so I can understand the music better. I am not merely trying to reach a goal, but enjoy each step of the process.

    My question is this, is it bad for a beginner like me to try to play advanced pieces? I ask this as I have seen 'warnings' on forums to people like me, about reaching too far, and picking up bad habits, learning to run before one can walk, etc. 

    I feel so empowered by the resources available to me in these modern times. I am so fortunate. It is such a great time to be learning!

    Thank you!

    Victoria

    Like 1
    • Victoria Chan I normally don't advise taking on advanced pieces as a beginner, but it sounds as though you are really enjoying working on these pieces and the challenges that are involved! Perhaps you could balance out the work?  Start your day's practice with some simple exercises or pieces so you do cover all the basics (some of the main exercises from The Complete Pianist would be helpful here) then move on to your favourite pieces.  Remember that there are lots of wonderful pieces by great composers (Bach, all the Classical composers, Schubert, Schumann. Chopin, Bartok to name just a few) that are suitable for beginner and intermediate pianists.  If your finances can stretch to it, you may find that even just a few lessons would help to reassure yourself that you aren't building up too many bad habits.  

      Like 1
      • Victoria Chan
      • Super keen adult beginner
      • Victoria_Chan
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Penelope Roskell Thank you for your advice! A lot of great ideas here, I'll try them out.

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  • Hi Penelope, 

    what technique, practice you would recommend to do octaves in succession for small hands, 8th - 9th span?  my son is working on several pieces that have these in them such as Chopin scherzos and Mendelssohn Piano Concerto No.1. 

     

    Thanks much.

    Like
    • springgrass Pianists with small hands need to practice octaves sensibly.  It's much better to practise little-and-often than to practise for long stretches.  The most important thing is not to build up too much tension.  The wrist needs to stay flexible.  I would ask him to focus on what happens between the notes.  Does his hand relax as he moves between the octaves?   And remember that you don't always have to practise octaves forte, even if it written that way.  If you are just note-learning or memorizing you can save a lot of energy by playing piano.  There is no rush to play octaves - he should be patient and build up the tempo very gradually.  If you have a copy of The Complete Pianist, I suggest he looks at the sections on 'Widely spaced chords' and 'Playing octaves'.  Also, he might find the section on 'Pianists with small hands' helpful.

      Like 1
  • I am wondering if piano technique should change for someone moving from classical music to jazz. 

    Thank you,

    Michael

    Ps. If you can comment on this: is Keith Jarrett's technique good?

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    • Michael Furmaniak I personally believe that good piano technique is good piano technique - whatever the genre or style.  The piano and the body are the same. The main things I am looking for are good co-ordination, quality of sound and flowing movements.  You see all those in the best jazz and Classical players.  Some pianists feel a bit freer when playing without notation - I notice some of my students relax more when playing jazz.  But I certainly wouldn't imitate Keith Jarrett's technique - he is obviously a very talented pianist but he makes a lot of contortions with his whole body!

      Like 1
    • Lo
    • purple_chair
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Hello, would you have special advice for people with fibromyalgia / pain syndrome? The pain comes so quickly...

    I've found out that it helps when I play regularly but for short periods of time, but the pain comes back quickly in the fingers, but also in the arm when the left hand jumps often and regularly (like in Chopin's Nocturnes or Waltzes for example).

    Other question: with ADHD (and aging...), memorizing becomes very difficult. Would you have an advice?

    Thanks a lot and greetings from Switzerland !

    Laurent

    Like
    • Lo Without seeing you in person, it would be very unwise of me to comment on the pain. As I mentioned in another response on this forum, I will be doing a live Q&A for tonebase sometime after Christmas, and it would be better to address this live, if you are happy to do that? As far as memorizing is concerned, I would think carefully about whether it is actually necessary for you to play from memory.  Are you a professional who feels obliged to perform from memory? If not, then I would focus on just memorizing the passages where you need to look at the hands.  I do a lot of memorizing away from the keyboard - there are two sections in The Complete Pianist where I give examples of how to do that. 

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      • Lo
      • purple_chair
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Penelope Roskell Hello Penelope, thank you for your answer. Yes, I would be happy to discuss this topic live :). As for memorization, I wished to memorize pieces so as to diminish the stress due to hesitation, and for the pleasure of concentrating on playing/the music (also for playing with closed eyes). I'm not a professional pianist. I will follow your advice of memorizing only specific passages. Thank you!
      Merry Christmas 

      Like
  • Dear Penelope

    I like to have your hints for using etudes. 

    • Would you suggest using etudes for pupils of the level of Burgmuller and higher? (For example, Czerny, Hannon, Heller, Liszt etc.? )
    • Which number (album) of them do you recommend? Do you let students play throughout the book or some selected pieces? 
    • Using Hannon's etude for scales and arpeggios is a good idea? Do you use something else? 
    • If you have some tips for applying your technical practice to those etudes, I would like to hear them.

    I am looking forward to your advice!

    greetings, Yoko 

    Like
    • Yoko R. S. Kobay I am very fond of the Burgmuller Etudes, as they are musically very engaging, as well as quite technically focused.  The problem with some of the more advanced etudes and exercises that you mention is that they are so boring!  It's important to keep a late-intermediate/advanced student engaged, so you have to choose your technical work wisely and not to overload.  At that level, I personally prefer shorter exercises (like the very short exercises I demonstrate on tonebase and in The Complete Pianist) rather than long etudes, so that the technique can be learnt quickly without weeks of note-learning and then quickly put into practice in an actual piece. Try to pick out the etudes that you consider most relevant to each technique and focus on those.  In my opinion, all technique should have  a musical purpose. 

      Like 1
    • ALICE
    • ALICE.1
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Dear Penelope, Thank you for taking the time to help TB members. I am an adult beginner. Three questions have been "haunting" me: 1. collapsed left hand knuckle bridge causing tension to my left hand - how to cure this? 2. control feel arm weight and arm weight transfer -making legato/dynamics 3. align breathing with playing - how to practice this?

    Below is a short video of me practicing Clementi op36 no1 2nd movement, featuring all three questions. I appreciate very your feedback and improvement suggestions. 

    Like
    • ALICE You play the Clementi very elegantly and with a lot of feeling!

      It is so long since I recorded the videos for tonebase, that I can't quite remember what I covered but here are some suggestions:

      1)For the LH, I suggest you look at the quacking duck/snapping crocodile exercises.   They strengthen the intrinsic hand muscles which are responsible for supporting the hand arch.  Do them regularly for at least a month, away from the piano, and you should really see a difference.

      2) For arm weight and legato, keep practising the Parachute exercises!

      3) I personally never think about breathing consciously when I play.  I can hear that you like to sing while you play - this is not a bad thing, as it does encourage you to breathe with the phrase and also to feel the phrase sing.  Unless you regularly feel yourself holding your breath (in which case you will need to keep reminding yourself to take a deep breath out) then I wouldn't try to control your breathing.  

      Like
      • ALICE
      • ALICE.1
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Penelope Roskell I re-watched your technique videos and started my 30-day exercises today with these exercises.

      A follow up question on Parachute exercises: Your videos are on arm weight transfer going up/down steps on white keys, what about larger intervals, b/w white and black keys, Should I pivot to the opposite direction of a note then go the next note with a bigger interval. E.g., should I pivot to the left of C4 to transfer weight to A#4?  

      A follow up question on singing along while playing: I was told to sing silently when playing, so I can focus on listening to the quality of sound. Sounds like you don't object to sing along while playing? 

      I also watch all your series at Online Academy. All great materials. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and skills.

      Like
    • ALICE Thank you.  I didn't quite understand the first paragraph.  But I would say that, in any cantabile piece, you should start each phrase, whatever the intervals, with a parachute touch.  You just then transfer the weight that you used in the first note into the second note.  I call this 'Walking along the keybed'. Singing inwardly when you play is great!

      Like
    • Aline Valade
    • Artist
    • Aline_Valade
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Hi Penelope, is it to late to ask a question ? I take a chance! 

    I watch your video on exercices to do before playing and I enjoy it a lot. It's thrue that help a lot to play better the piano. 

    Even the parachute moovement, I just love it. It help me to relax and be more focus. 

    My question is about a piece of piano that I study since almost 9 months. 

    What you suggest to me to apply to help me to play that piece of music better with relaxation arm, helbow, or shoulder, because this piece is really fast and a lot of notes! 

    The piece is Prelude no 2 from English suite, Jean Sebastien Bach. 

    Thank you for your advice, hope I am not to late to ask, because I will like to ear about your suggestions. 

    Have a nice day

     

    Regards, 

    Aline Valade

    Like
    • Aline Valade It is good that you have found the Parachute touch helpful.  That is used mainly in cantabile playing - it gives a warm rich sound and it keeps the whole arm and hand relaxed.  In this Prelude you need a nice light forearm bounce for the staccato notes (no Parachute touch here).  For the semiquavers you need to keep your arm light and use independent finger action (what I call the Singing finger touch). 

      Like
    • Solreaa
    • Solveig_Realfsen_Aamland
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Hi Penelope.
    I am educated pianist and pedagogue. But the last year, i’ve not been able to play. Now I want to get back to the level I once was. It’s hard, and I need some helpful words and some advice to how get back in my level (whats the best to play, to get my muscles and technique back?). At the moment I play basics as scales, hanon. But also Bach english suite nr 3, Zweites Scherzo op 14 of Clara Scumann. I’ve also been through some etudes of Chopin. And other stuff I have to play, to play with and prepare lessons for my lovely pianopupils. Thank you:)

    Like
    • Solreaa  Without knowing you or your level, it is very difficult to advise.  The pieces you mention are excellent, so I think you should continue to be guided by your own instinct. I always find that pianists play pieces they love with greater enthusiasm and conviction.  Perhaps listening to some of the lessons on tonebase will inspire you!  

      Like
      • Solreaa
      • Solveig_Realfsen_Aamland
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Penelope Roskell Thank you, Penelope!This answer made me relaxed and made me belive in my own insticts again, to get me to my level again. So true. I will play with more joy from now, I hope. Thank you:)

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  • I know it's too late to ask a question. This is a thank you message for Penelope. I learned my scales and arpeggios when I started playing the piano a few years ago. I've been tempted to try and take them to a higher tempo as training for more difficult passage work, but it created too much tension throughout my entire body that I stopped. I didn't want to end up with a repetitive stress injury. I just finished watching your scales and arpeggios videos, and I think the issue has been mostly awkward fingering. I just purchased your book on that topic and I'm very excited. Thanks so much!

    Like
    • Leah Olson I'm pleased to hear that, Leah!

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  • Penelope Roskell My son is working on Chopin Etude Winter Wind, and having a some challenge with the right hand, especially the arpeggios parts.  Please give some tips.  Thanks much.

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