Bach WTC Book 1 No. 8
Hey just genuinely curious about what everyone’s choice of key to learn this piece since the Prelude was in E-flat Minor and Fugue was originally composed in D-sharp minor. I have learn to play the fugue in both keys and they do feel different playing each one of them. Maybe there’s a reason why Bach composed the two in different key signatures?
-
The hypothesis I've seen for the mismatched key signatures is that Bach might have transposed some existing works to fill out the keys, and used the destination key signature that was more natural to transpose to (e.g., E minor to Eb minor rather than to D# minor).
If I have a choice of key signatures with lots of accidentals I prefer the flat ones (Eb minor in this case) because generally tonal music will raise pitches (particularly scale degree 4, and 7 for minor keys) more often than it lowers them, and I'd rather see flats turn into naturals than sharps turn into double sharps. I'd certainly prefer for the C# major pieces to be in Db! But when it comes down to it I just play the music that's in front of me, which is D# minor for the fugue in my edition.
-
Interesting theory. But if he’s looking to have a book of a very organized sequence of keys it wouldn’t have been much trouble to transpose the fugue to E flat minor as well? ( just assuming but I could be wrong)
I find it very interesting regarding your preference of reading with the flat keys but play the music in the original key! For me it has been a debate because I often find music with flat key signatures to be a bit more difficult to play due the choice of fingering probably due to how i associated with practicing the scale. Music in sharp key signatures however, I would find it easier to play but yes a bit more difficult to read.
-
It's fascinating to me (and impressive) that some of you have such finely tuned pitch-awareness that you hear a difference when played in A415 vs. A440. I'm not sure I would ever notice, unless played side by side. But my understanding is that if you played these pieces on an untempered instrument such as a violin, an A# and a Bb for example would be different notes.
Although these are solo piano pieces, Bach may have had "violin keys" in mind in some places, or perhaps he felt that the "sharp" version better reflected the tones in his mind than the "flat". I've also read somewhere that Bach's 'Well-Tempered' does not necessarily mean our version of 'Even Temperment'. So the true tones available on the keyboard might have seemed more appropriate in a sharp key or flat key to him, depending on the surrounding notes and context..
I first learned the Eb Minor Fugue Book 1 from the Schirmer edition (Czerny editor), which, interestingly enough had actually been written out in Eb Minor rather than D# minor. (transposed? by Czerny himself? one of Bach's student/copyists? a Schirmer in house editor?) I re-learned it later from an Urtext in D# minor, which wasn't very easy, but certainly a good mental exercise...
And FWIW, as I understand it, the C Sharp Major Prelude in Book 2 was based on a version originally written out in C Major. So there's precedent for transposing from a more common key in order to fill out the catalogue of 24 major-minor keys. Something that is already written out in E minor would be much easier to transpose into Eb Minor than D# Minor -- and would reduce the possibility of error by those whom he may have charged with actually writing out the notation. Just change the key signature and you are almost done, except for some accidentals. Convenience might certainly been a consideration to someone who was writing 2 or 3 masterpieces per week, while also rehearsing the choir, carrying a full teaching load, and facing down organ-playing challenges from whatever hotshot competitor was in town, not to mention tending to 20 children!
-
BTW, all of you interested in the WTC and other Bach pieces might enjoy our Bach thread, and might even share some of your performances there!
https://piano-community.tonebase.co/t/q6yykqa/tonebase-bach-stage
I'll have some more pieces to post there after I get beyond a few very resistent stumbling points, as best I can!.
-
I learnt this piece in its original keys Eb minor for the prelude and D# minor for the fugue. For some reason I found it easier to read it in D# minor when I first learnt the long fugue than in Eb minor. I still find it a challenge to play the fugue, as the voices are so close together and intertwine with augmentation of theme in the different voices at times.
-
I believe there is some confusion here. Bach never composed the Fugue No. 8 of the Well-Tempered Clavier in D-sharp minor but rather in E-flat minor. The Well-Tempered Clavier was Bach's concept to prove that one could play in all 12 keys of the keyboard, both major and minor. Versions that transpose this fugue, as well as others like the C-sharp major fugue to D-flat major, were only created by editors to simplify reading. This demonstrates the lack of solid theoretical foundation seen in recent decades, as during the era of great composers, including Bach, transposing of a piece were done immediately, playing in different keys to showcase their profound understanding of music. I cite the example of Beethoven, who, when presented with the young Liszt, asked the child to play the C minor fugue from the Well-Tempered Clavier in A-flat minor, which the prodigy Liszt accomplished with ease, impressing the composer from Bonn.
This reinforces the point that great composers possessed a deep mastery of music, allowing them to easily transpose and adapt pieces, something often overlooked in modern interpretations.
-
yes you are totally right. Some argue that Johann Sebastian Bach composed Fugue No. 8 from Book I of "The Well-Tempered Clavier" in D-sharp minor instead of E-flat minor due to practical considerations involving the transposition of existing works, instrumental limitations, and theoretical intentions. He often repurposed earlier compositions by transposing them to fit new key schemes, and the D-sharp minor fugue is believed to be a transposition of an original piece in D minor. Evidence supporting this includes the first note of measure 16, which became a high C-sharp after transposition—a note unavailable on keyboards of his time—prompting Bach to adjust the notation in a way that suggests adaptation from an earlier version. Transposing from D minor to D-sharp minor is more straightforward than to E-flat minor, as it involves simply raising each note by a half step, whereas converting to E-flat minor would require changing to flats and complicate the notation. Additionally, the choice of D-sharp minor served as a pivotal point in the WTC's key progression, marking the transition from keys with sharps to keys with flats, possibly symbolizing a significant shift in the collection's structure. The solemn character of the fugue has led to interpretations of it being "passion music," with the six sharps in the key signature resembling a sideways cross, adding symbolic meaning. This practice parallels Bach's composition of the Prelude and Fugue in C-sharp major, where he transposed pieces originally in C major up a half step to fulfill his exploration of all major and minor keys. Overall, Bach's choice reflects his ingenuity in adapting material to fit his grand scheme, showcasing his deep understanding of musical theory and expressive potential.