Group 4

Mark Forry Welcome! To po prostu mój praca. 

Jarred Dunn A Ty jaką świetną praca robisz! 

Mark Forry #muzyknerd

Jarred Dunn I would love to be able to read these letters in translation, although I suspect it would take a lot of digging to find the local music references. I'm also very curious about these instruments; what does he mean by "monochord"? Were cello- and bass-like instruments played together? Were fiddles playing both melody and harmony? What about hurdy-gurdy and bagpipes; we know they were common throughout Poland, did he mention them?

This brings up another question for me. I read Alan Walker's biography last year, and in the section about Chopin's time in Szafarnia, he makes reference to Jewish musicians and their possible influence on young Chopin. (There are also several uncomfortable passages here and elsewhere in the book about Chopin's anti-semitic utterances.) Walker says of Op. 17 No. 4: “The plangent ‘ethnic’ harmonies so characteristic of this particular mazurka are thought to reflect the influence of Jewish musicians he heard in the region of Szafarnia.” (p.78) While I found Walker's biography useful in many ways, I also thought it lacked an informed ethnomusicological perspective - that's one reason why I'm enjoying this TWI, so much attention to detail and nuance! Nonetheless, it raises interesting questions.

What did Chopin hear from Jewish musicians? Did they play Slavic Polish folk music or something distinctively Jewish, or some mixture? I read that klezmer musicians (whom Walker mentions) were active in Poland from the late 16th century, but I would guess off-hand that as professional musicians, they were more likely to have been active in urban settings than in rural.

Again, your thoughts most welcome -- I'll also check with a friend who knows klezmer music history in Poland.

Mark Forry what a question regarding Chopin's contact with Polish Jewry and its relevance to his folk music. Since I'm in the middle of commenting on several other things, I'd refer to you Jeffrey Kallberg's chapter "Chopin and Jews" in the book Chopin and His World, where he answers exactly what you're asking. You are right that Klezmer musicians were more active in urban than rural settings but as to the census data that would confirm that I'm not entirely sure. Chopin's Jewish friends like C. V. Alkan, F. Hiller, and F. Mendelssohn must have had some impression on him but you're right that most of Fryc's references to Jewishness and Jewish people are frightful. The A minor Mazurka Op. 17 nr. 4 was nicknamed "Little Jew" by Szulc, but that's another complex story that is the topic of Graziella Di Mauro's article on the piece. Let me know what you find from your friend who knows klezmer music history in Poland, I'd be delighted (zachwytcony) to know about that. 

Jarred Dunn  I spoke briefly with my friend Michael Alpert about klezmer musicians in Poland in the 19th century. He said (abbreviating a bit):

- Klezmer musicians were active in large and small towns throughout Poland by the early 19th century. 

- There was not necessarily a significant distinction in Jewish cultural life between large and small towns; each was a "shtetl" (from G. Stadt).

- There were also Jews in rural areas in professions other than music.

- Many Jews, like Roma/Gypsies, were "service nomads"; i.e. they travelled professionally although they might have had fixed abodes.

- Klezmer musicians were likely to know both Jewish and local Slavic repertoire.

- The most common Klezmer instruments were fiddle, bass, and tsimbl (hammer dulcimer, like cimbalom in Hungary and Romania). More on tsimbl here:
https://yivoencyclopedia.org/printarticle.aspx?id=2236

From all this, I'd say it's safe to assume that Chopin could have heard klezmer musicians playing Polish folk music and Jewish music. I'll keep looking around for more detail.

Mark Forry dziękuje bardzo! This matches the PL research I’ve seen on this topic and seems to be a confirmation!