The issue of cut time and tempo
This is one of those questions that opens a proverbial can of worms, but I'm sure it will find good company here; art is not simple.
Among my favorite short piano pieces is Schubert's G-flat Impromptu. The original time signature is double cut-time; according to my concert pianist brother-in-law, perhaps the only one in the Classical repertoire with this time signature.
I understand that cut time is also called alla breve, so the implication of double cut-time maybe even more breve, although the marking is Andante.
Now, here's the thorny issue for me:
1. I have always "heard" this piece at a much slower tempo; it makes sense to me this way, though I wish to be true to Schubert's intention. By slower, I do not mean the halting, lethargic pace I have heard from a few, but somewhere in the realm of the half note at 45-50, rather than the usual ~80 and upwards
2. Seymour Bernstein, in one of the videos, says that he has never found any historical reference to indicate that cut time indicates a faster tempo, only that it indicates the other aspect, the phrasing.
I would love to know Mr. Bernstein's view of the matter regarding this particular piece. Otherwise, perhaps someone else with far more knowledge than mine (easy enough!) would like to weigh in.
-
Cut time does not mean faster; it's a difference in how the beats feel. Although "breve" reminds us of brief (from the Latin brevis), it refers to a double whole note (a regular whole note is a semibreve). So it's actually referring to a longer, not shorter, period of time. It seems to me that Schubert intends to emphasize the continuity of the long lines (the whole note gets two beats, the half notes get one). Would be happy for others more knowledgeable (are you around, Ben?) to correct me/explain this far better!
-
VL Exactly. Most people play the half notes as andante (76-90 for you metronome lovers). But I think Schubert’s point is not use the eighth notes as gestures and without accent.
-
VL I disagree with you and with Seymour Bernstein.
We don't know exactly what Schubert meant, but he did give us "Andante", so the pulse is walking tempo. Now the question is, what beats get that pulse? if he intended it to be quarter notes, he could have written the piece in 8/4 time. He didn't. It's 4/2 time. In my opinion, and that of people like Vladimir Horowitz, Evgeny Kissin, Alfred Brendel and Andras Schiff, the Andante tempo applies to half notes.
Another case like this is the first movement of the Beethoven "Moonlight" sonata. It's marked "Adagio sostenuto", but it's written in cut-time, 2/2. There are four triplets/measure. Why didn't Beethoven write this movement in 4/4 time? I think his intention was that the pulses are on the half notes and the "Adagio" applies to them, not to each quarter note.
And from a musical and instrumental standpoint, playing each of these pieces at Andante and Adagio (respectively) to the quarter is so slow that the long sustained melodic notes will have decayed greatly before the next is played (this would have been a worse problem on the instruments of Schubert's and Beethoven's time). This tends to break up the long line and therefore doesn't make musical sense, at least to me.
-
Don Allen It appears we are actually in agreement.
-
-
Excellent question, Philip. Now I am dying to hear the views of others as unfortunately, I haven’t the knowledge to put forth one of my own.
-
I have two thoughts on this:
I think it was Garrick Ohlsson (or maybe Jerome Lowenthal?) who pointed out that we have recordings of Rachmaninoff playing his own concerti, yet very few pianist choose to adopt his tempi and his style of playing (even if they could). So if Schubert came back and played that piece for you, you may still be tempted to play it differently, and that's perfectly fine, as long as you come from a point of honesty and you do not distort the spirit of the piece.
With regards to cut time, I will have to disagree slightly with Mr. Bernstein. It's is true that cut time does not mean play faster, but I believe that the lower limit of the speed you are allowed to choose moves up - otherwise how are you able to convey the 1-2 beat instead of 1-2-3-4 if your tempo is too slow? You could be thinking oooone-twoooo to yourself all you want, but if you're too slow the music will feel like one-two-three-four to your listeners.
-
Thanks to all; it's so valuable to receive such thoughtful answers! I appreciate the explanation of alla breve, which clarifies it for me.
I remain conflicted, though, truth be told, my lack of technique gives me enough trouble at my tempo and would make farcical an attempt to perform at, say, Schiff's. The andante marking is for me the most persuasive argument for the usual tempo range; assigning it to the quarter note makes no sense to me. (Aside: With all respect to Mr. Schiff, his insistence on Schubert's natural "brook" figuration allowing no rubato holds no water with me. The brook in Müllerin is also a metaphor, not merely a brook, besides which, brooks run faster and more slowly, as he, himself, has certainly experienced.) This piece just makes me want to walk slowly, to take in the sublime moment it offers. The name Impromptu conceals it's treasure.
Regarding the break-up of a 2 to a perceived 4 from too slow a tempo, and the issue of note decay on older instruments, I tend to agree. Nonetheless, Schubert's composition here, I feel, fits the 2 so inherently strongly that a sensitive phrasing can still carry it over its length at a slower pace.
One feature of the piece that seems vital to me is the contrast and counter-position of the two minor and dissonant passages with the succeeding major ascending-6th ones, which I hear as a separate voice, a dialogue.
As I said in my original post, I do wish to be true to Schubert. At the same time, honesty of approach, mentioned by Wassim above, and also emphasized my erudite father, offers some room for interpretation. Whether in this case the spirit of the piece is thereby distorted -- there's the rub. I take comfort that few will ever hear it from my hands and among those, perhaps someone will manage to hear a little of the richness of interplay in the piece that I believe gets buried when the piece walks along too briskly.
-
Hi Philip,
You seem to be a very thoughtful musician. My suggestion at this point is for you to take the leap and just play the piece. This is just the beginning of your journey with the impromptu, which you seem to love very deeply. Get it under your fingers and let it morph over time. You'll never be done with it.
If you feel you're not technically ready, the late Nicholas Angelich mentioned in an interview that his piano teacher, Yvonne Loriod (Messiaen's wife), gave him Beethoven's Hammerklavier sonata when he was 17 - not because he was ready for it, he said, but because it will become part of his background, his culture. That's the reason why (albeit more for more mechanical reasons) I expose my students early on to some of Chopin's etudes, in particular his opus 10 #2 and the double-thirds etude.
With regards to the tempo, I feel that Brendel's take is very convincing - somewhere between Schiff and a Zimerman. Google him and you'll get an excellent videotaped studio performance. In my opinion, he is still the most natural Schubert interpreter, and his rather thick sound serves the music very well.
I wish you the best of luck on your journey.
-
Thank you for your reply, Wassim. I do continue to play it, to experiment with various aspects, as with many pieces. Great art is always new, if one is open to its riches. I'll look up the Brendel recording.
You probably know the anecdote told about Chopin assigning a new composition of his own to a particular student of his. The student returned to perform it for Chopin. When he finished, Chopin said, "Actually, I hear it like this," and sat down to play it. The student returned home to practice intensively, getting every nuance he recalled from the master's rendition exactly right. He returned and proudly played it for his teacher. When he finished, said Chopin to him, "Actually, I hear it more like this..."
