Research article on how only 13% of women can comfortably span an octave, 76% of men can

Larry_K
updated 1 mth ago
26replies

https://news.stanford.edu/stories/2026/07/piano-keyboard-design-standard-narrow-women-research

- PViseskul
- 1 mth ago
- Reported - view
I would definitely want an opportunity to try a narrower keyboard
- Have a growth mindset, no matter what!
  
  Gail_Starr
  
  1 mth ago
  
  Reported - view
  Priya, I'll do a Zoom with you next week to show you how my digital narrow keyboard works!
- PViseskul
  
  1 mth ago
  
  Reported - view
  Amazing! look forward to it!
- Guzzii
- 1 mth ago
- Reported - view
Would be interesting to see the distribution on male/female who has interests in piano.
- Larry_K
  
  1 mth ago
  
  Reported - view
  Perhaps piano self selects for women with larger hands, kind of like how double bass does.
- Jimmy.2
- 1 mth ago
- Reported - view
Not to take away from the point about different scales of keyboards, it does seem important to distinguish the difference between 'can span an octave' and 'can comfortably span an octave'.
- peter_smidinger
- 1 mth ago
- Reported - view
I have chatted with a local classical performer in western Colorado who got an action, custom built with narrower keys, for a grand she uses, that can be easily switched in and out for her performances. I lack further details.
- Have a growth mindset, no matter what!
  
  Gail_Starr
  
  1 mth ago
  
  Reported - view
  As far as I know, the keyboards that can switch into your grand piano only work with Yamaha pianos. I have a digital "narrow keyboard" Athena that is a stand-alone. Now that there is a patch to improve the weighted feel, it is enjoyable to practice etudes and other works that are challenging for my small hands.
- Larry_K
  
  1 mth ago
  
  Reported - view
  Steingraeber has built 5.5” and 6” interchangeable keyboards but I am sure that they’re expensive. https://www.steingraeber.de/en/innovationen/narrow-keyboards/
  
  Still, if the piano brings great joy, and expanded repertoire, why not?
- Akzent oder Diminuendo?
  
  Maria_F
  
  1 mth ago
  
  Reported - view
  What do you mean by "a patch?"
  
  Also, how many notes can you reach?
- PViseskul
  
  1 mth ago
  
  Reported - view
  my teacher visited Steingraeber last year and there are interesting customisations they can do, including curved keyboards! come with hefty price tag, of course.
- Larry_K
  
  1 mth ago
  
  Reported - view
  Sadly, it looks like the largest maker of narrow keyboard actions that can slide into Yamaha grands now only sells to universities, not to private pianists.
  
  The price is upwards of $17k for the action, but, if you already have a Yamaha grand, you’re almost there! There is a cheaper option for $11k that would preserve the sound of your piano and not provide a switchable action.
  
  They are located in Titusville, Pennsylvania.
  
  They are a nonprofit named D.S. Standard Foundation that is trying to foster the adoption of narrower keys.
  
  https://dsstandardfoundation.org/products/
  
  I wonder if I would switch back and forth from a narrow action at home and a wider action at lessons. I am sure others share this concern.
  
  I don’t feel that I have particularly small hands but wonder if playing narrower keys would make things easier for me in attempting more difficult repertoire.
  
  I can’t give up on acoustic pianos, though, I love the sound too much.
- Larry_K
  
  1 mth ago
  
  Reported - view
  Steingraeber has all sorts of interesting innovations, like the Mozart Rail that reduces key dip to 8mm for faster more silvery passage work.
  
  The can even offer it as an adjustable feature so you can change from 8mm to the common 10mm for key dip.
  
  https://www.steingraeber.de/en/instrumente/custom-pianos/
  
  I think I saw a photograph of the curved keyboard. Someone had gone all out on a custom Steingraeber as a retirement present to themselves.
  
  It is amazing that such innovations are offered at all given the low profitability and low demand for them.
- Larry_K
  
  1 mth ago
  
  Reported - view
  I think she means a software patch, an update made in software.
  
  Here is the Narrow Keys website. They make the Athena.
  
  https://www.narrowkeys.com/athena?srsltid=AfmBOorGNMSbRIz5KSlLhn5Sg2iVIDCSlDsI800CiVjpoiyJtpYtmrJ5
- Angela_Fogg
- 1 mth ago
- Reported - view
I have small hands and have struggled with octaves all my life, especially consecutive octaves. For one of my diplomas the examiners asked me to play a scale in double octaves. I thought it had gone quite well. They then asked me to hold up my hands, they both nodded and one of them said ‘well yes, with hands like that, that’s probably the best you can do!’

I think the thing that made the most difference was yoga, time spent in downward dog seemed to open my hand, and strengthen it as well. It made my hand very flat so I wasn’t losing millimetres to a convex palm.
- Deana_Dossey
- 1 mth ago
- Reported - view
Opportunity for composers to write amazing music without octaves. Hope some women are inspired to compose or try composing pieces that work with their smaller hands. Let's do this!
- Deana_Dossey
- 1 mth ago
- Reported - view
would love to learn more about existing music and composers that work well with small hands. I know easy arrangements of many classics do that but sometimes the choices made by arranger leave something lacking and often seem to leave out things like movement between different keys within a piece.
- Deana_Dossey
- 1 mth ago
- Reported - view
only 13%? thanks for sharing this as it helps me re-frame my own struggles with small hands.
- Larry_K
  
  1 mth ago
  
  Reported - view
  You’re welcome.
  
  After I told my wife that number the other morning at breakfast, she said, the piano is a sexist instrument. I found it hard to refute that claim.
  
  I did a little digging into why the piano keys are so wide.
  
  Before 1880, keyboards were not standardized. Octave sizes ranged from 4.9 to 6.7 inches.
  
  The desire for louder pianos contributed to the building of larger pianos and probably resulted in wider keys.
  
  Also, Liszt and his European compatriots helped push wide keys because, well, they were males with big hands.
  
  Hand size is related to both genetics and environment, as well as gender.
  
  So, the standard got frozen in place back in 1880, and woe to all of the women who tried to play the instrument after that.
- www.narrowkeys.com
  
  Linda_Gould
  
  13 days ago
  
  Reported - view
  Some of the reason for the wide keys is physics. In order to build a piano that could withstand the pounding (meant in a respectful, musical way) of Franz Liszt and other great virtuoso's of the day, they started to build the piano with an iron frame rather than a wooden frame. The hammers had to become heavier and they needed longer, stronger strings. They didn't necessarily have to make the keys wider but because Liszt and other great virtuoso's of the day were such a large part of the evolution of the piano, and they wanted a piano that fit their hand comfortably, piano makers created keys to fit the virtuoso's hands. The piano was becoming standardized at that time and it settled into the 6.5" octave we have today. With the rise of better and better digital pianos (yes, acoustic is still king) we no longer have to settle for a one-size-fits-all key width. And given all children under 10 have small hands, shouldn't they have the same opportunity to learn proper piano technique right from the start like violin students do on smaller violins?
- Akzent oder Diminuendo?
  
  Maria_F
  
  13 days ago
  
  Reported - view
  Liszt could reach 10 notes, but apparently struggled with some filled 10th chords. Thalberg and Moscheles had larger hands, I believe.
- Larry_K
  
  13 days ago
  
  Reported - view
  Thank you for your post, it is much appreciated.
  
  Yes, of course, children should have a way to play keyboards with narrower keys. I thank you for your work on such keyboards.
  
  I will simply not play any repertoire that requires a larger handspan than I can manage, but, I am not a professional pianist.
  
  I was quite disappointed to learn that DSS will only sell narrow key acoustic actions to conservatories.
  
  There are advanced players on this group who might purchase such an action to play in a Yamaha acoustic grand.
  
  As you said, acoustic pianos are still king, and, so, any serious student of the piano will be forced to reckon with wider keys.
  
  Perhaps narrower key acoustic grands will become more prevalent in conservatories and concert halls. It does seem like a difficult road, to be honest.
- www.narrowkeys.com
  
  Linda_Gould
  
  12 days ago
  
  Reported - view
  There are other options coming onboard as well. Google the Sirius 6.0 initiative happening in Europe. Fabulous German brands such as Bechstein, Steingraeber, and August Förster are now making acoustic grand pianos with narrower keys. Some have 6.0" octaves, which is a very easy size to transition to, while others offer both 6.0" and 5.5" octaves.
  
  Many university students are practicing on 6.0" pianos and then performing on traditional 6.5" pianos. Practicing on a 6.0" piano can allow for much longer practice sessions without pain, even for pianists who can reach a 10th.
  
  Personally, I loved Chopin and Prokofiev as a teenager, and being able to barely reach a 9th certainly didn't dissuade me from playing their music at university. But I remember my arm aching by the time I reached the end of some of those pieces. Unfortunately, I developed a performance injury after I graduated.
  
  My love of the great works for piano never left me. Today, I can play them completely pain-free and with total comfort on 5.5" narrow keys. I have a retrofitted Yamaha grand - David Steinbuhler's first commercial sale, over 30 years ago - and I now also have a narrow-key digital piano that allows me to perform comfortably anywhere I want.
  
  In short, there are many pianists with smaller hands who love, and want to play, the great works that have traditionally been much more accessible to large-handed pianists. And if you play primarily for your own enjoyment at home, why not have a piano that allows you to experience the full repertoire with greater comfort and less physical strain?
- Larry_K
  
  12 days ago
  
  Reported - view
  Thanks!
  
  I am glad to hear that there has been so much progress.
  
  Here is a link to a website about the Sirius 6.0 project,
  
  https://www.hmdk-stuttgart.de/sirius-60
  
  It’s in German. The button for English translation is disabled for me.
  
  It’s great to hear that you can play such advanced works free of hand pain.
  
  I can only reach a tenth off of the front of the keys, which I suppose is not very useful.
  
  How does gap feel between the black keys? Is it more crowded? My teacher is working with me to play deeper into the black keys.
  
  Pieces should include a rating for hand size.
- www.narrowkeys.com
  
  Linda_Gould
  
  11 days ago
  
  Reported - view
  The black keys are narrower too giving you almost the same space on whites between black keys.
  
  I agree with your teacher, playing deeper into the black keys gives you a more tactile playing ability which increases accuracy and sensitivity.
  
  A hand size rating is a nice idea but I would prefer more accessibility to keys that fit so those that wish to play certain repertoire are able. All the best on your musical journey!