What advice would you give your beginner-self?

What advice would you give your beginner-self?

 

Be kind! 😄

65 replies

null
    • Akzent oder Diminuendo?
    • Maria_F
    • 3 wk ago
    • Reported - view

    Slow down, don't rush. 

      • Peter_William
      • 3 wk ago
      • Reported - view

       I didn't want to raise a hornet's nest here and didn't mean to say anything offensive to Maria.  I completely agree that practice has to be super slow. My note above summarizes a beginner's perspective on what works to have some improvement.  Can categorically state that musical piano playing is an extremely difficult endeavor and it will most likely take 6-7 years! of playing to get even remotely musical but that should not deter one from playing without any expectation.

      Having an expectation of  reaching performance level of a university master's level  student where they have to play a whole concerto in front of an audience of professors! is probably an ill advised goal.

      • Der Wanderer
      • FRANZ_SCHUBERT
      • 3 wk ago
      • Reported - view

        I'm not sure why stating ones opinions here could ever be offensive?   It is simply an exchange of ideas and I welcome your thoughts and feedback whether you agree or not.

      Honestly, the reason I said anything as I really wondered why you were more focused on speed than musicality?  Who taught you that the end goal is the concert hall?  Who taught you that you won't get there unless you meet some sort of speed target?  Who taught you that this small circle of experts who are in elevated positions hold the keys to your success or not?

      These aren't questions without an answer.  I had to ask and answer each one and more to fully understand why I thought the way I did.

      And all these questions are not directed at you.  In all cases, I am referring to myself of questions I would ask or just generally an open ended question to anyone who might be interested.

      I didn't know about this thread from three years ago but I know that how I would answer this question today and how I would have answered it three years ago or ten years ago or 25 years ago would be completely different.  This makes me glad in some respects because I can now, through experience, see most of the folly of what I was led to believe in the past.

      Yes, I could come up with many practical things like doing something more or less of something else.  All very pertinent and practical.  But today, I would say none of this matters much if you don't first answer the question about why you even play an instrument today and go from there.  If I manage to find some time, I will talk more about the things I would tell my younger, beginner self, and answer this question.

      • Peter_William
      • 3 wk ago
      • Reported - view

       reading your thoughts convinces me that our reference frames are completely different. Me ( beginner) you ( super advanced). Topics for a beginner (like correctness of notes, correct rhythm, slow tempo(1/3 or less than actual tempo) are largely assumed in your reference frame. In your reference frame ( I suppose Maria falls into this as well) it is more about musicality ( interpretation, artistry and other higher order concepts) which are all necessary. Finally you may have even reached the transcendental level- where you ask who is the audience and more philosophical questions like - is any audience even necessary other than the performer, but I am very very far from these levels. :-).

      My comments were rather of the mundane type like - are we reading notes right, hands separate, hands together?, what can allow for microscopic speed ups - if any are possible? are we able to play a certain piece or should we skip it altogether since we don't have the capabilities to play it etc. and in answering those some methods may help us move forward without loosing many years. 

      • Akzent oder Diminuendo?
      • Maria_F
      • 3 wk ago
      • Reported - view

        I was saying both that I used to play too quickly and neglected to do enough slow practice and that now I see the importance of slow practice more, and that as a general matter, rushing and playing as fast as humanly possible are not good things. Neither of you misinterpreted what I said. 

      • Peter_William
      • 3 wk ago
      • Reported - view

       yes I am completely guilty of rushing around like the "proverbial headless chicken " lol!. Now the small pieces I practice are exactly that - very very slow , sometimes just 1 bar or 1/2 bar - 4 notes - and it is working a bit better. :-)

    • hot4euterpe
    • 3 wk ago
    • Reported - view

    My advice would be to approach piano and music with as much simplicity and humility as possible, and to avoid conflating ideas unnecessarily.

      • Peter_William
      • 3 wk ago
      • Reported - view

       Simplicity is key! the humility that results from playing is almost guranteed and automatic. Just take a look at page of a Chopin etude and the required humility will be instantaneous. It is so so difficult! lol! .. 

    • Der Wanderer
    • FRANZ_SCHUBERT
    • 13 days ago
    • Reported - view

    What advice would I give my beginner-self? 

    1)    Be patient.  Master the basics first and resist the urge to jump ahead to a level you are not ready for as a student.  Accept the fact that initially, for many years or decades even, a large part of your life will only be devoted to learning how to play (technique) as well as just learning notes (repertoire).  This work will never cease but at some unknown time way in the future it will shift from being the main job to becoming subservient to the joy of musical interpretation.

     

    2)    Begin with the end in mind.  Understand that music is more than just the ability to play all the notes you have learned and play technically well.  Although this is already an admirable skill in itself, this is only the prerequisite step to even scratch the surface in approaching true musicianship and artistry.  Playing the piano can be taught.  Interpreting music and artistic vision cannot be taught and is innate to an individual.

     

    3)    Practice more!  Spend more quality time at the piano; not less.  As an adult learner, trying to catch up and make amends regarding the first two points above it seems clear to me that you might only reach musical nirvana once you have truly spent an enormous amount of time (decades?) working at technique and repertoire.  Once you are at a high level this finally frees your mind to then go beyond the mechanics that once limited you to actually making music.

     

    4)    Do not practice all day!  Have a plan for devoting time away from the piano to reading about your favourite composers and the world in which they lived.  For inspiration, travel to these places they lived and walk on the ground they may have walked on.  Visit the homes, churches, concert halls, museums, cemetaries and other areas they were associated with and learn everything you can about them.  Learn other instruments or use your own instrument and learn how to sing etc.

     

    5)    Do not underestimate the importance of a good quality instrument.  Be thankful and use what you have happily but set your sights on the best acoustic grand piano you can afford as soon as possible.  My four-year-old self wishes that his parents would have had the good sense to start him off on the right foot by providing a Bösendorfer Concert Grand 290 Imperial piano to learn on.  It would have made all the difference in the world.  ;-)  Seriously, there is no replacement for an acoustic grand action and touch.  Also, music is really about sound.  The more beautiful it is, the more intoxicating it becomes.  Avoid digital pianos like the plague, if at all possible?

     

    6)    Do not listen to recordings (or at least limit yourself).  Listening to professional recordings and music competitions and so on could be informative and interesting to a point when you are starting out but unnecessary, counterproductive and problematic as you progress in your own education and journey.  That is unless you want to sound like everyone else and not take any ownership of or contribute to the outcome.  The score and your own talent and imagination is all you should need for motivation.  It literally amazes me how much blind confidence everyone seems to put into learning directly from famous recordings (myself included in the past) without ever actually referring to the score as their guide. 

     

    My mostly beginner self as a young adult who couldn’t actually physically play or practice anymore decided that the next best thing would be to learn the music by listening to recordings.  It is all fine especially if you are just a listener (and not actually playing).  So, I am (was) very familiar with how the world thinks this music should sound and be interpreted as.  A year or two ago once I finally could start learning this music at the piano it became abundantly clear that what I thought was the standard was often not what the score testified to (my opinion only).  This traumatized me deeply actually because this was my world that I thought existed but once I started studying the scores deeper it became clear how many tricks and deceptions are being passed off and sold to everyone.  Have an inquisitive mind and find things out for yourself.  Recordings are commercial products and they have a vested interest in selling you something.  They will never take a risk and gamble on something that likely would not sell to the masses.  Likewise, with competitions.  They virtually sanitize music and only a narrow view can exist.

     

    Music is a creative art (at least it should be).  If you are just mimicking something you heard you are being the opposite of creative (which is OK if you want this).  One has to have ideas, vision, and passion about music in their mind and follow it without apology (in my opinion).

     

    7)    Teachers!  🙂  🙃 You pays your money, you takes your chances!  When one is a beginner, I believe finding the best teacher is vital.  You will benefit profoundly by having technique and the basics taught to you the right way from the start.  It is very difficult to undo the damage a poor teacher can inflict on a beginner.  Ask me about this because I know this first hand.  So much more can be said about this but today, after learning the hard way, I would definitely “interview” any prospective teacher first (just as they are assessing you).  If they put you down, cannot or will not answer simple questions, or are dismissive towards you then it is clear this person is problematic and not qualified.  They might refer to how many degrees they have and from where and who they know in trying to impress you (or assert some sort of phony power or position).  Again, a red flag.  If you are musical and know what you want the best thing after a short conversation is to find opportunities to listen to the teacher actually playing themselves.  Bonus would be to try to listen to their students at a student recital.  This would tell me everything I need to know about their character and what they believe in and whether I could trust or respect this person as my musical guide.  Their artistic vision should match my own musical sensibilities and intuitions.  If every student and the teacher sounds the same, this is not a good sign.  If you don't assess this, you will also end up sounding this way too so you better agree with it before signing up.

     

    8)    Respect those above (and below) you that have earned your respect.  Put in the hard work and always be open to learning and seeing different points of view. Do not blindly trust the views or opinions of someone just because they have degrees or a perceived status of some sort.  Music is a free gift to all who seek it and put in the blood, sweat and tears.  There should be no gatekeepers.

     

    9)    Always stay true to yourself.  Never follow.  Have clear but realistic musical goals and ambitions and do not allow soul crushing individuals into your circles or give them one second to influence you in a negative way.

     

    10) Develop a thick skin (or do not care what clowns say).  Do not worry about the naysayers as there will be many.  Believe in yourself but be humble enough to learn from criticism (tough love) if it comes from someone who has earned your respect.  This is a gift.  Know the difference between advice from those who give it selflessly and want to help build you up and those who would keep you down because they are weak, pathetic and afraid of losing their power over you.

     

    11) Stay humble.  There is no endpoint to be found in the pursuit of music.  You can never say you have arrived.  I have so many unanswered questions and the challenges seem to be virtually daunting and insurmountable but I can think of no better place to be but at the foot of the mountain looking up into the expanse of the universe in pursuit of the answers and learning the secrete language of music.

      • Peter_William
      • 12 days ago
      • Reported - view

       Wow! this message has lots of very interesting points.

      Is it possible to share a link to your playing ? just to get a frame of reference.

      If not no worries at all. 

      Thanks in advance

      • Der Wanderer
      • FRANZ_SCHUBERT
      • 12 days ago
      • Reported - view

        Peter, don't you want to get to know me a little better first ?  😵💫😳

      I promise you that when I am ready to share something you will be the first person I will send it to just because you asked nicely.

      Did you agree or disagree with anything I talked about?  I hope by "getting a frame of reference" you don't mean that you just want to judge me first?

      I am just a guy with a metronome, learning notes, like everyone else here and happens to also love music.  What I wrote is me literally telling myself what I think today about my musical journey and what I have learned so far.  It is a current snapshot and the "frame of reference" is that I would never have said anything similar in the past and I'm sure at some point in the future I will see things differently again.  Please do not mistake what I wrote as if I am some authority about anything.  I am not.  This is simply me giving my opinion and trying to find out what I actually believe currently.    

      • Peter_William
      • 12 days ago
      • Reported - view

       Zerghete Doug ! Hope I spelled it right. You know what it means. lol!.

      Yes I think it would be great to hear your playing - just by reading what you wrote. So was just wondering who is the pianist behind the writing. Rest assured I have learnt not to judge anyone by whatever standard, just appreciate whatever they do.  :-).  I will not be surprised even one bit if you are a super high level player , here at TB it is not uncommon to find such players. Whenever I turn to a page like the Bach Stage/ Mozart/ Beethoven I am just in total awe at the level of playing that is shown in YT snippets. :-).

      I have my favorites and don't want to embarass anyone but there are several here.. 

      • Der Wanderer
      • FRANZ_SCHUBERT
      • 12 days ago
      • Reported - view

       ...Zerghete ?  I am drawing a blank here and don't know what this means...

      As for playing, I can give you a heads up now that you can prepare already to be disappointed.  ;-).   If I eventually do post anything I think I would treat it just as a diary or an informal way to document the music I am working on and that interests me.  Maybe similar to what you are currently doing.

      You mentioned writing and it seems I find just writing about the music I am playing / learning is quite cathartic and somehow allows me to clarify, distill or arrive at some conclusion in my own interpretation more clearly.  It would be a summary of how I understand the music at that moment in time.   Occasionally, I do feel motivated to do this but we'll see?

      • Peter_William
      • 11 days ago
      • Reported - view

        Yes a diary would be awesome ! and small piano playing posts most informative!. I look forward to it. After reading your posts I am sure there will be no disappointment at all.. :-) 

    • Blair_BooneMigura
    • 12 days ago
    • Reported - view

    If I could offer advice to my younger self at the piano, I would begin by saying: Learn how to practice, not simply how long to practice.

    Of course, much of what we now understand about the science of learning, memory, and effective practice wasn't available to me as a child. But I would encourage my younger self to become curious about the process of learning itself. Practice doesn't have to mean spending endless hours at the keyboard. Two hours of focused, intentional work—perhaps three at most—can be far more productive than an entire day of mindless repetition. Know what you want to accomplish before you sit down. Practice with purpose, and remember that more is not necessarily better.

    I would also tell myself to become a more curious musician. Don't just learn a composer's piano works; listen to their songs, symphonies, operas, and chamber music. Read about their lives. Discover the worlds they inhabited, the people they loved, and the circumstances that shaped their music. Sight-read every day, and play more Bach and Scarlatti, even if your heart belongs to the Romantic and post-Romantic repertoire. They will give you a technical and musical foundation that will serve you for a lifetime.

    Find teachers who inspire you, but never surrender your independence of thought. Explore different approaches to technique. I wish I had discovered the Taubman approach much earlier, but I would also caution myself against becoming devoted to any single method. Remain open, inquisitive, and willing to learn. Let curiosity, rather than dogma, guide your development.

    Above all, never allow your imagination to grow stale. Remain whimsical. Cultivate a rich inner world of images, stories, fantasies, memories, and emotions. Music needs that inner life just as much as it needs disciplined fingers.

    And play through everything life brings you. Play when you're happy. Play when you're heartbroken. Play when you're angry, lonely, exhilarated, or uncertain. Allow the piano to become a place where your emotional life finds expression. The more intimately you connect those experiences to music, the more authentic your playing will become.

    Play for other people as often as you can. When you perform, turn your attention away from what the audience might be thinking. Focus instead on what you're feeling, what you're communicating, and, when necessary, simply on the choreography of your hands. Learn to trust the physical and musical work you've done.

    And finally, learn to love playing slowly. Play at a tempo where you can hear everything, where mistakes disappear, and where movement feels free of unnecessary effort or tension. Don't sacrifice musical expression simply because you're practicing under tempo. Let even the slowest practice be beautiful. Speed will come.

    Perhaps the most important thing I would tell my younger self is this: Let that voice inside you, guide you. Technique, scholarship, discipline, and curiosity are all essential, but ultimately they exist to give that inner voice the freedom to speak. Never lose touch with the wonder that first drew you to the piano.

      • Peter_William
      • 9 days ago
      • Reported - view

       "Learning how to Learn/practice" - This one statement is perhaps the most critical information. Kudos! you absolutely stated it succinctly. 

      This is the difference between not progressing meaningfully for 10 years and getting to  reasonable playing in 3 years.

      That statement is also very very individual. If you have a gifted ear you will almost certainly progress very quickly. For those of us ( like me ) who don't have a gifted ear - proceeding methodically and carefully is absolutely key. You may see results in less than 6 weeks in playing pieces that you thought were impossible to play.

      On that first statement a few corollaries are in order. If you are advanced you can pretty much skip everything below. 

      1. Pick a piece carefully - (adults - beginner and intermediate level )- may benefit from reading a book first from very great masters (there are several!) before touching the keyboard. Understanding the duration - based on whether it is a prelude/invention/sonatina/sonata/concerto  will help a lot. 

      2. Play it once fully both hands on the first try -very very slowly ( typically I use 60bpm or less)  - painfully slowly - This builds the picture of what the piece would sound.  Then play it once fully LH only and then RH.  Listen to a recording of your favorite legendary artist.

      3. Then starts the real work. Learning happens only in very very small chunks. Never on the whole page/piece - lol!. Sometimes it is as little as 1/2 a measure - LH first then RH. We listen to the melody and absorb it very quickly the bass line typically gets neglected -So absolutely listen to the bass line first then add the melody - learning will be much faster. The other way around is much more difficult. If your ear is automatically tuned to polyphony - you won't have this problem. The rest of us will find 3. useful.

      4. Practice a maximum of 1 line a day in 2 short sessions - 1 in the early AM and 1 in the evening - do not exceed 45 mins - as fatigue will set in very easily.

      5. Absolutely resist the temptation to move to the next line saying "oh this is easy" . The mind plays  tricks and it  fools one into loosing days/months/years. LOL. So doggedly stick to getting the line fully memorized.

      6. Do not heed anyone who says "oh just read the score" This will make you fully dependent on the score all the time !- so take the time/trouble to memorize the line. Use the score as a guide but test the memory immediately until it gets fixed. This can be done at any age. Playing even a few lines sounds much better when you have memorized it as the fluency sets in. 

      7. After  two lines are fully memorized. Play it in 1 go a few times until it becomes fluent. 

      I have personally tested 2-7 in an experiment and it worked way better than whatever I had used to learn in the past decade. So I hope this is helpful for other learners as well. Even if 1 honest piano player benefits from any of this advice above I am super happy. 

      If you have a teacher they can override any of these suggestions with better methods and please post if you would like to share.

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