I NEED HELP

Peter William Could you post the list with progression? I’m interested in it. 
 

I am also drowning. 

Larry K I have quickly read - what you wrote - and am sure you are at a much higher level than I am at. ( You had a teacher from Genessin school! ( Russia -Julliard !! ). So what would you like to know from me?

Peter William I started late in life and Covid and moving interrupted my lessons with her. I found another teacher but that has fallen apart.

I am perhaps a high beginner/low intermediate player filled with despair, lol.

I hope to find an inspirational teacher after we move to Philadelphia.

Anyway, I thought you had a list of beginner/intermediate lessons on ToneBase that might help me.

Larry K ok I see. No worries. I use a lot of other sources because of never having learned properly under a teacher for all sorts of reasons or really excuses. :-).  But without digressing TB is a truly wonderful resource with the most astounding pianists who have provided a glimpse of how to learn. So here are my recommendation of how to use TB. I became a member 3.5 years ago and didnt use it for a full year . Woe to me !.. lol!.

0. I assumed I know nothing and would like to learn from scratch with nothing to talk to anyone about.

1. Scanned a few classes and found all way above my level ( Chopin, Beethoven etc). But found Ben Laudes' lectures ( Music Theory Basics ). This is where I would absolutely start.  This class ( maybe 20 hours or so ) will give you construction of the scales ( new upto 3 sharps and 3 flats before the class), rhythm ( extremely important - I had 0 before )  and harmony ( I have not done this section yet .. ) But this class will immediately  insert you into playing some Mozart and Clementi ( small sections - the art of the possible )

2. Then hop on over and listen to Garrick Ohlsen's at Home - Muscianship skills . This is just listening to a very great master. Sometimes listening suffices to begin to see the art of the possible.  You will find references to books by very great masters of the piano- If you have time . Get them from the library and read if possible. I speed read English a bit - so read a 120 page book in about  an hour or 2.. Extermely useful. Since you know about  Gnessin. You will come across Lhevinne, and Hoffman - Google will lead you further.. ( Don't try the Brahms intermezzo - just not yet ) . This can be done in parallel with 1.

3. Hop on over to level 0 pieces. There are 2 pieces by another terrific instructor Brachi .. Bach Mussette in D.. This can be started as a repertoire piece if you care to play with others present or just practise for fun..( I am all of the later only .  :-) ) 

4.  After finishing 1-3.. you will most likely know very well.. All scales, most of the common rhythms (4/4,3/4, 6/8 etc) that you find in the accessible repertoire. 

5. If 4 is already true.. then go to Fur Elise by Seymour Bernstein. It is an amazing perspective from a very highly acclaimed teacher. There is also a class by another Julliard trained pianist ( LeeAnn Osterkamp). If I recall right there was either a class or a workshop.. Very very helpful. The only thing that I found perplexing was she said learn both hands together at the same time - I found this impossible so still learn a bar or two -hands separate.  She did give me a really good sight reading reference - Dozen a day. See if you can work through it. I found it a bit challenging.

6. The most important point. If you find any of 1-5 not resonating with you - Happily discard it and chart your own course to great benefit. lol!. 

7. If you want more on the pathway at TB after 5 ping again and I have a lot of other great lessons to recommend. There are 33 on my list that I have collected and gotten to a few of those. As you advance way above my level due to way better abilities and musicality.. Beethoven Sonatas await you - so no need to despair.! 

Peter William Thanks for writing that up, it is much appreciated! I will take your advice and follow it, as I have been stumbling around ToneBase trying to figure out what to do. 
 

Haha, the Beethoven sonatas await. I should live so long. 

Larry K Happy to help in any way. Please do stay in touch. We can exchange some notes on learning. Would be happy to hear from you regarding that great teacher that you had..

Larry K  Try Beethoven Sonata no 7 in D Maj( second movement). If the score doesn't scare you away ping me., we will have lots to talk about and play..! (I am playing this at home for the past few days .. ) If you need the score let me know I will dispatch it asap.

Peter William Larry K I also would add Penelope Roskell's course Technique Training.

I also recommend John Mortensen's Invitation to Historical Improvisation, which is an overview/introduction to partimento, and Jarred Dunn's course on Mazurkas, but those are less basic/foundational. 

Maria Yes Penelope Roskell's course - I missed that and was for the next post. There is a highly acclaimed book by her which I need to read and buy !. The complete Pianist.. The title says it all.  Jared Dunn is an absolutely wonderful pianist. Unfortunately for me the Mazurkas are probably too  tough to play.. I know absolutely nothing of composition or improvisation.. 

Peter William Maria I purchased Penelope’s book. In the beginning, she says the book does not replace an inspirational teacher. I would agree. 

At the moment, I find myself between teachers but I hope I can find someone after we move.

Larry K I agree that having a good teacher is very helpful. My excellent new teacher has been teaching me for about 6 weeks and I have learned so much already.

@Peter William  Larry K  Roskell's book is quite excellent and well laid out. It is a thick, dense text though and can be an overload of information. Great for teacher's and / or advanced pianists! I wish it had an index; I recommend getting some tabs to mark things you may want to look up repeatedly. Definitely one of my preferred resources these days!

Good for you! I’d try to find another teacher except with a move tentatively planned within a year, I don’t want to have to leave another teacher.

i want in person lessons. I’m used to that from other instruments.

I did start with a recorder teacher because I’m such a newbie there and have lined up another one for the move but I haven’t done that for piano.

Maria 

Dustin Anderson Yes, it needs an index! I use those low tack tags to mark all the pieces I’ve played and will order some more for that book.

I will try to go through her lessons here.

Larry K I think in-person lessons are more beneficial than Zoom/virtual. 

Maria I wholeheartedly agree. I have over twenty five years of in person lessons between violin, classical guitar, piano, and now recorder.

The teacher-student relationship is special.

Penelope mentioned that part of the reason she wrote her book was that she realized that she had to be able to explain what physical movements to use in each passage and why. Furthermore, she had to be able to demonstrate those movements.

The exercises she created for her students developed into the book.

We cannot forget that the playing of an instrument is a physical activity. Musicians have been called “athletes of the small muscle groups.”

Every lesson with my teachers has been about improving the physical side of my playing. It is easier to see those physical movements in an in person lesson.

Maria Larry K As I teacher, I do not feel that in-person are necessarily more beneficial than zoom / virtual lessons, but I do prefer in-person. The main reason  for this preference is that I can control the sound environment and easily monitor what I need to by simply moving about the room as I wish. I know the instrument well because it is mine so I know what it is capable of and I am not hearing a sound that is compressed or filtered. I also find students are more attentive and courteous in-person because they are a guest in a space I am sharing with them, while I can also be more attentive to body language and subtle queues of uncertainty that the student may not voice.

The main issue I have with online lessons is that student tends to lack the technology and / or instrument that will let them get the most of out of that type of lesson. A student should have a good computer with a nice size monitor, a good condenser microphone or set of stereo microphones, at least two cameras so you can see arm, wrist, fingers and feet adequately and a good, well-maintained piano in a quiet space free of distractions. In my experience, this is rarely the case. Many students use phones or tablets (and these are often not very current versions), or old laptops. They use the onboard camera and mic which are just not adequate. A committed online teacher will have the above mentioned setup but it does not really help them hear or teach the student better, it just allows the student to hear and see the teacher better. This is of course backward from what it should be!

Despite the many obstacles, there are some teachers doing excellent things with zoom lessons out there and there are some students that make sure to set themselves up for success with appropriate technology (though the costly investment makes this rare). One always hopes they find one another! These days, the only online lessons I really do are for long time students that have moved and value the established relationship and teaching style. It really works for some of them... though I am constantly wishing they had better x,y,z so I can advise them in more detail. 

Dustin Anderson 

When I took Zoom lessons, I did have everything basically set up how you described (except for when I was out of the house for an extended period, but that is a long story), but I definitely prefer having an in-person teacher, and make more progress. 

Dustin Anderson For all the reasons you mentioned, I prefer in person lessons. 
 

I want the teacher to hear me play an acoustic piano in a room, not my playing over a speaker.

I am probably one of the few people on here who has a Disklavier acoustic piano and could trigger acoustic playback on a teacher’s piano if it were a Disklavier but I am unlikely to find a teacher who owns a Disklavier.

Yamaha had (has?) studios that allowed remote student to audition at music schools over the network from Disklavier to Disklavier.

Maria Awesome info. !! I used the Ben Laude' lectures to start with 1 &2 . Also saw the Boris Giltburg lectures on color ( I didn't even know such a thing existed in piano playing)..Need to look at the other lectures also. 

I would also add Sara Davis Buechner's lectures - Mozart K 545 has lots of awesome info.

Then Scales lecture of Jeffrey Biegel.. (if you want to play at high speeds with good technique and hopefully no pain .. I tried one scale at 60 +12, all the way to 130 bpm .. but my technique needs to be looked at - so won't do that for more than 2 mins.. ) 

There are other lectures I have written about in other posts.

Definitely need to see the improv. lecture.. 

On repertoire.. I have this narrow list now for daily practice to cycle through as time permits.

1. Bach C minor prelude BWV999.. (There is a TB lecture on this as well )

2. Mozart Laudate Dominum and Alleluia for piano

3.  Chopin C# Minor Prelude - TB edition. 

4. Beethoven Sonata 7 D maj - 2nd movement. ( This one is my super challenge piece - to be played over several years ! maybe )

Peter William I think the Chopin nocturne is probably too hard. However, there is no problem with learning it as a stretch piece, if you are also learning pieces at your level. 

Maria It only gets horrendously difficult in some sections - the first page is sort of doable at the moment for me.. There is also Dominic (virtually ) for help and one of the world's best (Avdeeva ) is also demonstrating what to do.. At the moment the presto section I am skipping. I cannot even play a C major scale above 130bpm to the quarter accurately.. But I saw the class and wanted to try.. 

I will post on my practice page - the first 2 lines in a couple of days.