Group 3
Fresh off the release of her tonebase course āInside Mozartās Piano Sonatas,ā Orli Shaham is here to help take you to the next step with your Mozart playing.
This Intensive is meant for pianists who are currently working on a movement from one of Mozartās 18 Sonatas. Whether youāre just getting started with the āEasy Sonataā K. 545, or are trying to polish one of his more virtuosic Sonatas, you WILL improve your improve your technique and interpretation of Mozart and Classical Sonata Form.
- Sign-Up : Thursday, November 3rd at 8 am PST
- Course Period: November 7 - 21st
- Class Size: max. 4 Groups Ć” 10 Participants
- Optional check-In via Zoom: Tuesday, November 15th, at 11:30am PT
Assignment 1
ASSIGNMENT: Pick a movement from one of Mozart's 18 Sonatas to focus on over the next 2 weeks. Begin applying the stylistic, musical, and technical tips Orli gives in her course lessons and assignment video (see below). Post your progress in this thread along with questions for Orli.
Video clips are encouraged but not required!
For less experienced players, you should start with the C major, K545 1st movement. Thereās no obligation to finish a movement in 2 weeks ā you might only get through a single passage, and that's okay! And overachievers are welcome to work on more than one movement.
What matters is how much you can develop your skills within whatever scope youāre comfortable with. If youāre working on a Fantasy, Rondo, Adagio, or other Mozart piece thatās not a Sonata, thatās fine. But we encourage you to study a movement from a Sonata as well.āInside Mozartās Piano Sonatasā:
https://app.tonebase.co/piano/home?tbModal=courseModal&tbModalSlug=orli-shaham-inside-mozarts-piano-sonatas
- REQUIRED: (1) Watch the āQuick tipsā video first, and try the warm up and exercises Orli recommends before your practice sessions; (2) Watch the Intro video on the History & Style of the Sonatas; (3) Watch the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd movement video corresponding with you sonata.
- OPTIONAL: You may benefit from studying the video on āOrnamenting Mozartā and āMozart in Minor,ā to the extent that it applies to your piece.
Zoom link:
Join Zoom Meeting
https://us06web.zoom.us/j/85416214066?pwd=UkxPdGtya2FVRjA2RWxhYnRmcERFUT09
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Hello Group Three!
Iām working on KV 576, Sonata No 18, and Iād like to focus on the opening Allegro.
40 years ago I played the harpsichord, so my technique had involved playing almost entirely using the fingers, on instruments with a shorter octave span, Baroque fingering and ornamentation conventions, and expression through regulating the degree of overholding of notes (āfinger pedalingā), variation in timing, and manner of lifting the keys. Iāve had no formal piano training as an adult, and Iām a total amateur.
My first attempts at moving to the piano resulted in injury, carpal tunnel syndrome and ātennis elbowā. Now largely recovered,, Iām groping my way towards developing a safe piano technique that still permits the style of rhetorical playing I preferred on the harpsichord.
I desperately need feedback on my technical approach, as well as on my musical interpretation.
Iām also new to recording videos on my iPhone, so Iād welcome any guidance on how to create videos that are of a small enough size that can be uploaded (format?), with sound quality emphasized over pixel density.
Looking forward to hearing what everyone is up to, and of course to the guidance of our wonderful instructor!
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Michael Thanks for sharing your experience. Regarding your technical challenges, you might also benefit from supplementing this course with some of the tonebase technique courses (Roskell, Bernstein, Durso, etc) if you haven't already studied them. Orli's "Quick Tips" also has some helpful tips, although she can go into much more detail about technique in the next two weeks.
Regarding video uploads, unfortunately there's no direct way to upload to the forum that I'm aware of. Usually folks upload to their YouTube account, make the link "unlisted" and embed here. It's easy enough once you get the hang of it, but it requires a few more hurdles to jump through. I'm not sure if martin or Dominic has any resources to share with you that they've already created on this topic, but I'm happy to help as well.
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Nice to meet everyone. Yihan will work on Piano Sonata No. 12 in F major, K. 332.
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springgrass Great choice! One of the best. Looking forward to hearing you.
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Ben Laude Thanks much. Yihan worked on this begining of the year, but then his Chopin and Beethoven took all his time. Now that competitions are done, he can get back to this, it's not as easy as he think it is :-) Here is his first section of the first movement:
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Hello everybody, I'm working on Sonata K.545 (1st Mvt),
and I'm looking forward to hearing you, go to the next level on my playing
and having some useful advices about this piece.
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Sofia I'm working on the second movement of K545!
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Barbara Blakeslee good luck with this!
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Sofia Thank you. I'm in Group 1 and clicked on your group by mistake, but it was nice to see that someone else is working on this beautiful Sonata!
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Sofia Great place to start! I'm sure there will be several others working on it too, so you'll also benefit from learning from other participants.
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Hello everyone! I'm also looking at K576. I've played through the whole thing in a very rough and ready manner but I haven't decided which movement to focus on yet. I'm going to dig into the course tomorrow and hope to get some clarity on where to start...
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Julia Great choice! One of the most virtuosic. Orli spends quite a bit of time on this one in the course, so that should help kickstart things for you.
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Time to break the ice. I've uploaded (below) the first half of the Allegro of Sonata 18, with all the nasty errors and spastic moments that proliferate whenever the record button is pressed.
Some appear to regard this piece as a trumpet fanfare with orchestration. To me, it's a bouncy dance with contrapuntal sections that go haywire.
This sample sketches out the structure I'm working toward and many of the details, although the execution of course fails in some places.
I'll try to post again as I refine with your advice; and I'll post the second half soon too.
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Michael Thanks for posting! Sounds great already. I'll be helping compile questions and recordings for Orli, and I'm excited myself to see her feedback for you.
Meanwhile, your interpretation of the piece as a bouncy dance seems apt. And yes, this is one of Mozart's most contrapuntal works. It has always reminded me of the D major Prelude from Bach's WTC Book II. It seems likely Mozart was influenced by it.
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Here is the you tube file:
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Ben Laude Great comparison to WTC, not just for similarity of the motifs, but for the overall flow and episodic character--lots of varied, brief events strung together. Listening to it again kinda makes me want to go back to Bach. Revisiting that harpsichord literature on the piano is a challenge I haven't delved into yet. It's hard not to revert to harpsichord technique, which I have found to be a formula for injury on the piano.
And, thanks for the encouragement!
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Mozart Group 3 Just checking in to say that I'm happy to be Orli's "Teaching Assistant" for this Intensive. It's great to hear from many of you about what piece you'll be focusing on. For the rest of you, please let us know what piece you'd like to work on the next two weeks, and feel free to begin dropping your questions here.
Looking forward to hearing from all of you!
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My second installment: Allegro KV 576, the second half.
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Iām working through the K576 Allegro measures 81-99, trying to expose the harmonic modulation and milk it for all its worth. I could use some interpretive and technical guidance; Iām pretty clueless regarding music theory.
Iām thinking that measures 79-82 establish F#maj. Then harmonic modulation occurs in a series of blocks: measures 83-86; 87-92; 93-97. In the first blocks Iām trying to emphasize the chromatic descent of each block, conceiving each block as a decrescendo (subdivided into 2 decrescendos) and a pause in the new key. For the chromatic ascent that follows, Iām trying to linger and hesitate at first, then accelerate slightly and gradually crescendo. But I sense that I should arrest the crescendo and energy starting at measure 95 so as not to spoil the arrival in measure 97, in which I am trying to lengthen slightly the G at the beginning of the flourish, and over-hold the G into the following A for emphasis. I want to save the major emphasis (and forte) for the restitution of the main theme in the tonic Dmaj. (Did I get that right?) Iām attaching my current results in a brief video.
The technical issue arises in the triadic figures which have pedal-point like notes at the bottom (like the F# in measures 86-88). I want them to be more quiet, and Iām trying to figure out a maneuver with my hand or arm that sounds the note (once the key is down) by lifting up just above the escapement and gently pressing it down again. Iām over-holding most of the notes in the triadic figures as a default, and adding a little pedal in places. Any technical suggestions on how to play these figures?
(In measure 88 I played the B too loudly)
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May I pose a technical question on a passage within K 284, score attached? I find measure 53 and those similar to it difficult technically and interpretively, not because of the use of the left hand for the treble line, but because I'm bothered by the strength that the repeated A in the right hand assumes because it falls on the stronger (odd-numbered) 16th note beats, and because it's played by my thumb. Might the emphasis be better placed in bringing out the oscillating treble line that is split between the two hands? If so, is it criminal to consider just playing the upper C-A-B-G...line with the right hand, and leaving the lower pulsing A to the left hand? After all the left hand gets to pulse a D every quarter note earlier, in measures 11-12 for instance. It's kinda the same concept. My circuits are blown if I try to distribute the notes between the hands as designated, but suppress the thumb's pulsing A. On the other hand, I donāt want to be thrown into the prison in the basement of the Mozarteum for deceitful note redistribution.
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This is my first attempt to a Mozart sonata, 545, 1rst mvm- 1rst part and it needs some polishing but I'm here to correct my mistakes, so...
The two weeks intensives is a great way to deep dive into the piece with our guide Orli and the assistance of Ben.
For now I focus on the specifics technique issues. So I go slow.
Everybody talks about wrong habits when playing and
I pointed out among all while watching the video my gestures. Maybe too excessive.
So I have this question. Should we make economy of movements for better technique, or it's a matter of style and each one have his one.P.S. To be continued the 1rst movement till the end I hope. Tricky scales alternates between right/left hand.
Tried to do my best with the video quality. I'm working on this.
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Here is my current state of progress on the entire Allegro K576. As I work through this, I'm just amazed at how you professionals are able reliably to deliver flawless performances. So many times my focus shifts and one hand or the other fails to execute a small segment that I thought I had worked through sufficiently.
Listening again to the earlier submissions, I notice that some of the contrasts were better expressed previously, although there are some technical improvements. The slightly slower tempo in the earlier version of the second half sounds better than the fast one here. What do you think?
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Mozart Group 3For those waiting on the Zoom call, Orli and I are also waiting to get in. It will be just one moment!
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Ben Laude Unfortunate I've joined the zoom meeting the last ten minutes. Is there a chance to record it and view it again?
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The zoom call was a real treat, not only because such luminaries as Orli and Ben so generously shared their expertise and time, but because they also proved so approachable and entertaining. Thanks to them both.
