Week 3: Keep the Momentum

Tammy Hello Tammy, could you tell us your background? How have you reached such heights? 

Larry K Peter William Aw thanks — I'm NOWHERE close to a concert pianist. I have a corporate job (lawyer turned consultant) and studied piano as a kid until I was 18 — I did the ABRSM exams and performance diplomas as well as local competitions etc but then stopped once I went to college, and then didn't play at all for two decades. Nowadays, I enjoy the liberty of piano as an adult — playing whatever I feel like, and practising whenever I feel like it! One thing that did help when I came back to the piano was regular lessons with a Taubman-trained teacher — that helped to pre-empt bad habits after a long absence (not that I don't have them now, but it would definitely have been worse than if I were left to my own devices). 

Tammy Thanks for the reply. 

Just curious, how many years of lessons have you had in total?

It’s clear that lessons in early childhood are important in developing musicians.

At one of my lessons as an adult, my teacher (Juilliard/Yale) remarked that, as a child, he only played on the days of his lessons.

I didn’t think of anything when he said it but it bothered me all week. At my next lesson, I said, how did you get into Juilliard by only playing on the day of your lessons?

He said, daily lessons.

I was astonished. I had never heard of such a thing but it evidently cost his parents a small fortune.

Larry K Lessons from childhood are definitely valuable but older beginners / adult learners have a number of advantages as well. Success is really about determination, patience, achievable goals, and finding reward in the process itself =) The challenging part is maintaining a balance of these things over years of learning. This is typically easier at a younger age when a person has more time, more support and less responsibilities; but it does not mean it cannot be achieved when starting later!

Dustin Anderson I don’t disagree but to achieve the higher levels of mastery on a single instrument, I think one needs to start in childhood and study one instrument their entire lives.

When I was deep into my decade of violin study, I was moved by this commencement address given by the cellist, Lynn Harrell,

https://theinstrumentalist.com/december-1994-the-road-that-never-ends-by-lynn-harrell/

specifically this paragraph,

“The key is simple: you have to keep going. Life isn’t a competition; it is only about yourself, one day after another, forcing yourself to understand that you never understand it all.”

My life has not worked out with the single minded study of one instrument, and so, my success has been limited.

I have spent a decade each of lessons on the violin, the classical guitar, and the piano. Recently, I started lessons on four recorders, soprano, alto, tenor, and bass. It’s fun to play duets with my recorder teacher and it gives me some relief from the loneliness of the piano bench.

There is so much piano music that I will never be able to play. It’s just the reality of my age and the time left to me.

Still, I must keep trying.

Larry K It is certainly the most common path but it is not the only one to higher levels of mastery. I started piano at 17 years old with no background in music at all. I completed my first piano degree when I was 24. All the students I went to university with started their instruments at age 4-6, so it is certainly the most common path to high levels of performance but it was not the only one or I could not have successfully completed the same program alongside them!

Also, you do not need to necessarily focus on a single instrument. I've known a number of students that are high calibre musicians in multiple instruments. I actually teach harmony right now to some young students that are at advanced levels in both piano and violin and others that are advanced in piano and voice studies. That said, I personally have focused on just piano (though I have sometimes thought of taking up classical guitar).

I have worked with some adults that are very quick to learn and advance. Others are slower but relentless in their improvement. One of my adult students is now working on their level 10 RCM (essentially level 8 ABRSM). Again, it is not exactly common but when people are determined they can accomplish unusual things.

I articulate this just to point out there are multiple paths to high level performance abilities. They all require time and careful work but they don't necessarily require starting as a child. This is an encouraging fact! We are never too old to learn =)

Dustin Anderson But the reality of the situation is that those of us who are, say, sixty years old are limited in what we can achieve before the final curtain comes down.

I support people learning any instrument at any age but I am realistic about what I can accomplish.

Seventeen is late to the game, certainly, but sixty is so much later.

I don’t think I will ever post a video of my playing because nothing I play ever matches up to how I want it to sound.

Sure, I play for my teacher, and there it ends.

It seems to me that ToneBase self selects for high achievers. Perhaps it is because of the high cost of membership, the high cost of pianos, and the high cost of all the lessons it takes to play advanced repertoire.

I don’t really see anybody at my level, and, frankly, it is kind of demoralizing.
 

Larry K My intention was to share some of my own experiences as a student and teacher to specifically be encouraging, so I apologize if anything I said made you feel the opposite!

I understand better now that you are saying for yourself and your point in life you acknowledge there are limitations that even determination and dedication will not necessarily overcome. That is a fair point. I would just hate for anyone to 'sell themselves short' based on traditional learning paths. You of course know yourself and your physical capabilities the best!

I can't speak for everyone but I feel pretty confident that the vast majority of the people here would really value anything you have to share when it comes to recordings of your playing. I know I would! I have listened to pianists of all ages and levels.  I try to make a point of celebrating all the good in anyone's playing - because there are always good things! - and on Tonebase I only offer advice if it is asked for (and even then, gently and positively). There are many in the community that give me the same vibe and I am sure you would find the encouragement to be genuine. We all share a deep love of all things piano regardless of our backgrounds.

I'm sorry that you feel demoralized. Perhaps it would help to know that even after all that I have done with piano I too feel demoralized at times. Your experiences and thoughts are really valued though. Again, apologies if anything I said made you feel otherwise - I just wanted to engage with your thoughtful observations. =) I hope this helps a bit!

Dustin Anderson It’s not anything about your post specifically. I celebrate your accomplishment, it is wonderful. 
 

As for sharing recordings, I am reminded of what I saw when I studied the classical guitar. There was one guy who would attempt incredibly difficult pieces in master classes and would not be able to play a single measure with any organization. It was a mess from the start.

The people who taught came right out and said that they had tried to have the guy play something at his level but that he insisted on trying to play masterworks.

I don’t want to be that guy. I don’t want pity. I hope I am not trying to play advanced repertoire that I have no right to be playing.

I count on my teacher to provide music at the right level. When my teacher put the Chopin Op 4 No 17 Mazurka in front of me, I raised my eyebrows as if to say, really?
 

After a month of struggle, and watching the ToneBase lesson, which concludes with the statement that you could take a year to refine this piece, I felt even more demoralized, lol.

Now, I’m taking a run at that posthumous Chopin Waltz that Dominic presented. Hey, it has fewer notes, maybe it’s more doable. After a month on that, I’m not so sure, lol.

So, I don’t know what it all means. I just know that I have a long list of half baked pieces that never completely jelled.

Maybe a new teacher can sort me out.

Larry K I know that there are definitely people at/under your level here on Tonebase. You should start a thread for beginner/intermediate pianists (I don't know your level) and I am sure there will be responses. Also, I would love to hear your playing!

Larry K said:
I don’t want to be that guy. I don’t want pity. I hope I am not trying to play advanced repertoire that I have no right to be playing.

I also have the same concern sometimes. When my new piano teacher told me about the technical gaps she discovered that I had and made me start over with what I was learning and sent me back to the first Hanon excercise, I was concerned that I was actually a beginner and was arrogant and way overambitious to think I could learn the things I was learning. My teacher said that was not the case, and that she always reviews intermediate technique with advanced students because they have different musical backgrounds/did different curricula and she wants to make sure everyone is on the same page.

I believe if one is concerned that they are like that, they are probably not actually like that, and yes, a new teacher could definitely help.

Maria I appreciate your kind words but you don’t want to hear my playing, trust me on that.

Maybe someday but it’s doubtful. 

I don’t see videos from the late beginner/early intermediate level.

I don’t think ToneBase attracts many people at that level. Maybe those people are less likely to pay the money for a membership than high intermediate and advanced people or are less likely to post.

I find the teacher-student relationship to be a critical component of making progress. I have a wonderful teacher but the lessons are sporadic. That’s what has been dragging me down for years.

I will say that it has been a mistake to have lessons with a teacher who comes to my house. I tried to change the format to go to the teacher’s house but that wasn’t accepted.

Going to a teacher’s studio expands one’s world, staying at home constricts one’s world.

I need the journey of going someplace for lessons. I did that for over a decade in Manhattan.

I need to move back to a city in which I can walk or take public transport to lessons and give up my car.

What are your lessons like? 

Dustin Anderson In my childhood I was considered largely tone deaf!. At the moment I am playing a lot more than what a tone deaf person would be able to play and learning at a fairly decent clip.  It is amazing you have reached such a high level starting at 17.  The big secret is  -- Start from the very basics with a " I know nothing approach" then absolutely resist the urge to speed up things. The most counter intuitive part for adult piano starters are things have to be quick. Things are actually very very slow. It is very common to see superbly talented 5 yr olds play an entire concerto but for most of us we must happily clap thunderously in appreciation and leave it at that. :-) . Music is absolutely unforgiving - a mistake or break in sequence due to missed tempo takes away the whole listening experience - since we hear so many YT videos played to near perfection by the great artists of our time. As adult learners we have to proceed to methodically play simple pieces. In a couple of years if one looks at the before and after videos - there will be a noticeable change. I also found that if you like the music you are hearing on TB or YT by some great artist it will automatically motivate one to look at the score and try it at least - even if it is just a line. The fundamentals are key to progressing is my belief and experience.  Also most adults don't realize that starting with Music theory fundamentals may be biggest accelerator to their progress at the piano. Just some thoughts from my own learning - playing almost every day for the past 2.5 years at age 60+.  So the pieces I am playing now 

1. Bach's little prelude in C - had never even heard it until last week. So tried it for 3 days and can play through all 3 pages

2. Laudate Dominum..

and 2 other larger works a few pages at a time. Sometimes 4 -5 pages in sequence at slow tempo preserving the overall structure as much as possible ..  This would have been unthinkable about 3 years ago.. ( Just one page and please don't turn the page .. lol! :-) )

Larry K kind words or not ! I would advise you to play whatever you can to anyone who will listen. lol!.  1. It will get over your fear of trying to play at some perceived level which may or may not be possible..  2. More importantly it will lead you to another path -for e.g. getting a teacher, or trying a simpler piece without frustration. I am probably the worst piano player here on TB but I played for you over the phone .. lol!.  Thank you for listening for a few minutes.

Peter William When we were in New York, I rented a Yamaha U1 upright that had a silent feature.

After trying that out for a few days, my wife begged me to stop. The clacking of the wooden action parts was more disturbing than any notes I played so I went back to playing out loud.

After that, the guy downstairs would ghost my playing of Bach’s C major prelude. Later, he complained about our footsteps, lol. I wore wool slippers at home but my wife wore Birkenstocks. She wouldn’t give them up.

I met the downstairs neighbor for peace talks and discovered that he studied with Dave Van Ronk, a Greenwich Village folk singer. We then got along well. 

Once, I tried to play a few bars for my neighbor, an architect. He said, it sounds like a student recital. I don’t think he found any joy in my efforts. 

I do appreciate your vote of confidence.

If I do manage to play something that sounds like music, I’ll share it. I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting, though, lol.

Larry KLarry, how about playing YOU? I am both inspired and intimidated by master level pianists, and my overriding thought is - is that me? Do I want to play <insert name of most difficult piece on the planet here> - or do I want to play ME? Mark Cooper and I are having fun with a challenge where we improvise over a major II-V-I-VI and minor ii-v-i around the circle of fifths. I would love for you to join us on whichever instrument you choose. https://piano-community.tonebase.co/t/60ygp5s#m1yggsg

Onwards and upwards!

Ken Radford I appreciate the thought, and it’s very kind, but I don’t know who I am musically these days. 

I don’t want to play the hardest pieces ever written for the piano but I’d like to play at a decent level.

What I need is an inspirational teacher. 

Maybe that will fall into place after our next move.