Jazz/pop/rock player, reverting to the most basic lower-beginner-intermediate works and it's driving me crazy. Advice?
I've played piano most of my life, but grew up playing it more by ear and with simple chords, accompaniment and melodies. Over the years I got into jazz and started learning music theory and learned all scales, arps, chord types, and advanced chord voicings (7ths/9/11/13) and all that fun stuff. Nowadays I have the skills to improvise relatively easy and have no problem playing somewhat "advanced" techniques in an improvisational way, from a lead sheet. I'm not amazing, but it's definitely not "my first time at the rodeo"!
However, I've always had a love for classical music and have wanted to learn several works. I've taught myself how to read music and been doing that for several years now. I'm able to sight-read separate clefs without much issue, though sight-reading the grand staff and both hands simultaneously is still a challenge I'm working on.
That said, earlier this year I started working with a teacher which has been great addressing specific issues and habits. However, the repertoire he has me playing is driving me bonkers. All "elementary" works. C major, G major at most. It can be challenging sometimes putting my hands together, but the end payoff is not that fun to me, because I don't enjoy the music. I also feel shame as an adult when I google performances of the music and see 5 year-old kids playing it at recitals. I understand that everyone has to start somewhere, but for me as someone who has been playing piano for years, reverting back to children's music (and seeing 5 year olds play it better) is a bit discouraging.
I also often question how much value there is in learning this music at my stage? So many major scale runs up and down which don't quite exist in the music I actually want to play. And I don't feel like playing scales are a weakness of mine either. I've observed that it feels like learning new piano music is more often a matter of learning unique fingerings which are specific to that piece - so then, why not learn the music and fingerings I enjoy?
Oh, right, because it's much too hard for me (Chopin, Debussy, Ravel, Rachmoninoff, Beethoven) etc haha. But does all "easier" music have to be so musically basic and childish? I told my teacher I would love to focus on works which are simple enough to learn, but perhaps more musically "mature" and interesting. And give me some minor key stuff!
Would love to hear any advice or encouragement. Is it worth learning this music if the fingerings will be totally different on the music I actually enjoy? I'm pretty sick of scale runs up and down over constant alberti bass 
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I, unfortunately, do not have any advice but would like to say that your post illustrates exactly where the problems are for those "switching" from improvisation and jazz to classical music and vice versa. I can assure you that it is more frustrating for someone who can play only from sheet music to hear jazz music teachers playing differently each time they show the piece and boasting about that, giving the advice that I should just listen to jazz and learn by listening. What I am saying is that there is very little in common between classical music education and jazz (or improvisation), especially if one of the goals may be be some form of certification.
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Hi Jonathan, check out the level system with repertoire here
https://piano-community.tonebase.co/category/level-system-forum
You might find more interesting works based on your experience and personal level. Scales are all over classical music so they're important.
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Hi Jonathan,I agree with Jason. Checkout the link he posted. It is time to change teacher to a more aspiring one. There are many worthwhile repertoire accessible to intermediate skilled pianist , all classical music worth learning have difficult parts that you have to work through, this will be easier with a professional teacher. You must learn all your scales, it will be half the job done. All scales have a different feel and pattern on your hands. Try watching the Seymour
Bernstein video of how he taught a beginner. I have not checked it out but I bet it is good. Do not dispair.and good luck Priscilla
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I feel you, BUT: I think there's amazing pieces of music by Bach for every step of the way. From what you tell, the C major prelude from WTC1 shouldn't be an issue for you, the little preludes, and there are many really fine pieces in Anna Magdalena's büchlein.
There's also some introductory books like Kabalevsky op 35 and Bartok's Mikrokosmos that contain "easy" music but with much more color than the typical "let's insist with I-V" classical intro.
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Martin Thank you! I actually really love Bach, and have played through some of the easiest pieces previously. I will ask my teacher to take another look, I often find the pieces which he wrote as instructional are actually quite beautiful on their own as music, and lots to learn about counterpoint from him.
I've heard great things about Bartok's Mikrokosmos and I will also look up Kabalevsky. Thanks again.
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The Brahms waltzes op 39 for 4 hands are very easy . Also check out Schubert’s waltzes. He wrote over 300 of them , most are easy if you like waltzes. It still needs to be played with charm! That’s the challenge.
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priscillayam I love Brahms and Schubert, and some waltzes can be quite fun. I will ask my teacher to look at these, thank you!
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Jonathan -- if not "a ton", there's lots of intermediate level classical pieces that should be accessible to someone with your familiarity, unless you just have severe technical faults. Chopin e minor prelude, Bach 2 part inventions, Debussy Girl with Flaxen Hair, Tango in D Albeniz, middle (slower) movements of many sonatas (try Beethoven Pathetique), Satie Gymnopadie (or however you spell it); Chopin etude op. 10 no 6 (e-flat minor.) Gershwin prelude (the slow one). JOplin rags (Maple Leaf). Go for things with more of a jump bass like waltzes and other dance forms. Or try Beethoven 3rd movement sonata no.9 opus 14. It runs up and down but not over alberti and is really fun. Honestly kids as teens have so-so technique, then hear something they love, and go at. And the technique then develops to deliver the musical impulse/expression. I would pick something that turns you on --that is not too advanced-- and just go for it. If you want it badly, you'll figure it out and your technique will build.
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Hi Jonathan,
I've played piano for over 25 years now, but I never studied classical pieces seriously. I did some jazz as well, and later on, I accompanied myself als a singer-songwriter. As I wanted to learn some classical works, I started piano lessons 9 months ago, but my experience is completely different than yours. I only play repertoire that I like (only minor key stuff ;-)) and we haven't done scales or things like that. Maybe we will do that later on, I don't know. I cannot say if my teacher's approach is the best approach, but at least it keeps me motivated. I also had to learn how to study a piece. It sounds so easy and straightforward, "just study a piece", but studying is a skill. I often have to put in a LOT more time and effort in a piece than I was expecting before I started, but I also learned that you will be rewarded if you do.So, if I would give you any advice, it would be to find another teacher that motivates you and offers you repertoire that you like! Because there is beautiful music to be played at any level. Please don't give up, because it is worth learning this music!
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Hi Jonathan,
you have so many good comments and tips above, but I wanted to write you and assure you that your experience is not uncommon. I’ve been a piano teacher for over 30 years now, and so many people find their technique and ear way ahead of their reading skills.
In my opinion, you must play music that inspires you. I really like a lot of the repertoire suggestions above. Do a lot of listening to professional recordings while you watch the music. This will use your very accomplished ear to connect the sounds you expect to what the score looks like.
The next step is the process of taking the harder piece apart to make it easier. Hands separate is a classic, do this but also choose a very small portion - Maybe one or two measures. Go as slowly as you need to go to play the same fingerings every time which will engage your muscle memory.
You’ll soo start to hear that piece you love coming from your own fingertips.
It sounds like you have a good teacher, but some balance between reading exercises which will help you grow and a piece that has an inspiring finish line could help you stay motivated.
I’m on the other side… a classical musician who wants to play better by ear, and I do love jazz!!
there are a lot of great lessons here.
may favorote of the suggestions above is Satie’s Gymnopedie No 1. You could also check out his Gnossiene No. 1. Beautiful, a hint of jazz and while musically complex, they aren’t too bad technically.
Cheers!Georgia
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Jonathan, first of all, congrats on having developed your ear! It's great that you already have scales, arpeggios, chords, and advanced voicings under your belt. That's pretty wonderful! And those skills will enhance your learning/enjoyment of classical music as well. As someone above mentioned, I'd recommend Bach, starting with Notebook for Anna Magdalena, then moving on to the two-part inventions. These will get both hands working and you will also start to recognize patterns both visually and aurally. And it's music! (I love 2-part Invention 13 in a minor. It has some pretty jazzy sounding chords in the middle and a really nice diminished chord section.) Beyond that, find music you like. A general rule of thumb is to have one piece that you can master fairly quickly (approx. 2-4 weeks) and one that is a challenge for you, but that is not so hard you get discouraged/frustrated. This piece may take quite a while to learn. Your teacher may be able to guide you in that. (I told my teacher about two big pieces that I wanted to play but that I didn't feel technically ready for, and he agreed it was too early for me to start them. Then he had me listen to select pieces by several different composers and I have fallen in love with Rachmaninoff's Prelude Op 23 No 4. It's a challenge for me, I love it, and I can see that learning it is a building block to other pieces currently beyond me. There will be more stepping stones, including more Rachmaninoff, Debussy, and Chopin, along the way. Though being in my 60's I'd better get a move on, lol.) You certainly do not sound like a beginner. There's a book called "Music for Millions: Easy Classics to Modern" that is pretty popular. It has some easier pieces that you could use to build your sight reading and also has some nice pieces for building repertoire. Others have already mentioned Kabalevsky, Bartok, Satie... For building technique and to help with recognizing patterns, Czerny's exercises can be quite musical and progress fast so they cover many levels (Op 599, op 299, op 453, and others). Burgmuller Op. 100, 25 Easy Etudes -- easy is a relative term -- are quite fun. Re: YouTube: I, too, find myself getting discouraged when I hear little kids playing better than I ever will. So I find performers I like and try not to compare myself to the kiddos. "Comparison is the thief of joy." (Benjamin Franklin) I wish you much enjoyment as you continue your musical journey!
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Dear Jonathan, I have a background very similar to yours and am still am primarily a jazz/pop player. I discovered classical music perhaps a little earlier than where you are now, in high school, after one of my HS teachers gave me a bunch of old sheet music that she found a trunk in her new house (it included the von Bulow edition of Beethoven Sonatas and Bischoff edition of the Well Tempered Clavier, among others) .
Here are some pieces that really got me going, and made sense to me as a player who knew his chords but not much else:
-Third movement of the Beethoven 'Tempest' sonata, Op. 31 No. 2: a perpetual motion of mostly broken chords with some very interesting chord patterns >
-Second movement Scherzo of Beethoven's Eb. Sonata Op. 31 No. 3: I've always called it "the Grandfather of Boogie Woogie"
-Pathetique Sonata, Beethoven again, Op. 13 Mvt. 2 -- slow not that difficult, so beautiful and again so instructive as to what you can do with chords. Billy Joel made a pop song out of this one. The third Mvt. is a lively 2 hand interactive Rondo. and let's not forget the first movement -- V7 Tritones resolving to I Minor chords, made into a theme.
-Moonlight Sonata, Op. 26 No. 2 - 1st Mvt. almost all broken chords again, and melody is mostly chord tones. But yet, so moody, so beautiful, so powerful. and Mvt. 3 -- all chords all the time except for the occaisional minor key scale segments -- but a powerhouse of a show piece.
-Bach F minor Prelude from Book II of well tempered Clavier [actually I never played this until recently but it's often given to newer students; not that difficult, and amazing chord progressions!)
-Chopin C minor Prelude. Again a pop song was made out of this. Jazz players love Chopin's chord changes. Pay attention to the voicings of the chords. they are very cool!
You don't have to play any of these up to tempo to experience their wonderfulness. Forget what the little vituosi are doing, just immerse yourself in stuff like this.
So now, you've gotten a lot of great suggestions from many of us here --dip into these, find one that grabs you and immerse yourself in it. After you select one, do your best actually to MASTER it, not necessarily at full tempo, but where you can play it at a given tempo fluidly without starting/stopping/stumbling. There is great value to taking a piece to that stage, so stick with it until you get there. Inevitably you'll find that you'll need to memorize it. Again something probably foreign to you as a jazz guy but you'll find that you really benefit from the effort.
THEN: report back to us and let us know how you are doing!
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Peter Golemme Great tips, thank you!
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Here's another vote for Denise Agay's "Easy Classics to Moderns. " The pieces as different - not the typical ones chosen for children's curriculum - and short enough to learn quickly. If played musically many are hauntingly beautiful.
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Becky Eck Thank you, Becky! My mom wants to get back into piano, but I'm having a tough time finding pieces she'll like.
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I was recently in the exact situation you described and I found the Bach 2 Part Inventions to be perfect to start with. As well as a few of the easier preludes from the WTC (from Book 1 - C major, C Minor, B flat Major).
I think those are great places to start.
I found those books such as 'First Lessons in Bach' or 'Easy Classics' to be either too simple or not musical enough because they aren't 'real' pieces. That is never an issue with Bach.
