Transcendent Beethoven: Op. 111, The Final Sonata

Ever wonder why late Beethoven plumbs the depths — and how on earth to play this unearthly music? Join tonebase’s very own Assistant Head of Piano Noah Alden Hardaway for a livestream about Beethoven’s Sonata in C Minor, Op. 111, his last sonata for any instrument. Topics will include Beethoven’s love life, German idealist philosophy, interpretation, and practical advice for getting your fingers (and brain) around this rich and complex work.

 

Find the start time in your time zone by clicking the photo or following this event link:  

 

https://app.tonebase.co/piano/live/player/beethoven-111-noah-hardaway

 

 

 

We are going to be using this thread to gather suggestions and questions!           

  • What questions do you have on this topic?
  • Any particular area you would like me to focus on?

Ever wonder why late Beethoven plumbs the depths — and how on earth to play this unearthly music? Join tonebase’s very own Assistant Head of Piano Noah Alden Hardaway for a livestream about Beethoven’s Sonata in C Minor, Op. 111, his last sonata for any instrument. Topics will include Beethoven’s love life, German idealist philosophy, interpretation, and practical advice for getting your fingers (and brain) around this rich and complex work.

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  • Hey everybody! Just wanted to say how much fun it was to share a few thoughts about Op. 111 with you today. Special thanks to Genevieve Denise marina  Susan  and Marilyn Henry for leaving comments in the chat as well as tuning in! (apologies for any confusion if I've tagged any of the wrong folks here.) and extra thanks to Sean Mulholland Ben Laude for working their behind-the-scenes magic!

    As promised, here's the link to an annotated score of Op. 111, based on the content of today's stream. It features all sorts of handy advice, from redistributions & fingerings, phrasing tips, and how to practice this work's inescapable and unforgiving rhythms. 

    Right now it only covers the first movement; let me know if you find it helpful –– if so, I'll do my best to annotate and upload the second movement for you as well!

    Bonus for the weekend: here are the beautiful passages about Op. 111 from Milan Kundera's Book of Laughter and Forgetting. Enjoy.

    Hope to see you on another livestream sometime soon!

    Cheers,
    Noah 

    Like 1
    • marina
    • pianophile
    • marina
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Noah Hardaway Only managed to attend last 30 min of LiveStream and will look at rest shortly. It was great! Have downloaded the annotated score and would love it if you could do the second movement too. I'd really like to learn the whole sonata this year. Also any tips for building up all those trills..... Thanks so much for your inspiring presentation :-)

    Like 2
    • marina , I'm glad you enjoyed what you heard! Let me know if the rest of the livestream is up to your standard :) and I'll be sure to tag you once the second movement is annotated.

      It's a wonderful project, it really helped me get through some tough months of the pandemic. Somehow I found it easier to focus deeply in this piece than in other parts of my repertoire -- something in the nature of this music, probably. You may find the same thing! The trick is to "pull out all the stops" while embarking on the project and not feeling intimidated. If you apply yourself with love, focused persistence, and effective strategies, it will come together.

      There are a couple of things to keep in mind for the trills: 

      First set:

      • definitely try playing exclusively trill with the right hand, taking the melody lines above and below it with the left hand (sneak preview in picture 1!)
      • when possible, choose your most comfortable trill fingerings. For me that's 23, but many people like 13.
      • change fingerings slightly at beginnings/endings so you can make smoother legato or clearer accents (see picture 2)

      Second set (the ending): write down two or three most likely choices (for a medium-size hand, probably 34 or 35) then practice them in the following ways:

      • RH alone, just the trill - in duplets, then triples (alternately accenting the principal note and then the auxiliary note), then fours. You can practice small segments (just 2 notes, then just 3 notes, 4, 5, etc) for speed/reflexes, but here the important thing is to get used to the continuity, and controlling that continuity.
      • RH and LH, but playing only the treble staff: RH trills while LH plays the melody. Listen to the melody and phrase it as beautifully as ever, as if there were no difficulty with trills.
      • RH trill only, with LH playing the accompanimental triplets as written. Trill in duplets, triplets, and then 4s (or even 6s), just like you already practiced. You can choose the version you like, even a free trill if you're feeling bold. However, I personally prefer performing 4-against-3 (4 notes in RH for every 3 in LH), which helps me stay stable without sounding overly measured or calculated. Hans von Bülow recommended this version as well.
      • As written, not worrying if the trill falters or briefly dips while playing the melody. This is why even medium or small hands should use 34 or 35, unless you have a super reliable 45: it's not necessary to play an absolutely uninterrupted trill, as long as the general impression is one of evenness and unflagging-ness. Better to play a nice 34/35 trill and have it disappear momentarily when you move your hand to go play the melody note. Or you can take the lowest melody notes with the left hand, that works too.

      Physicality:

      • Gently move your wrist and forearm forward and back while trilling. This eases strain and also helps include some variety of weight/dynamic swells.
      • Fingers: so close to the key that it'd be impossible to ever slip a piece of paper between your fingertip and the key (this practices the sensitivity of your fingertip to the the workings of the action, allowing you to play without ever lifting the key up all the way).
      • Then try a contrasting way, with forearm rotation. It's much less precise but is an easy way to get a feeling of physical freedom.
         

      Ah, I wrote you a wall of text –– let me know if it helps, and if so, which part you liked the best!

      Like 1
  • Thank you so much! I was writing it in my music as we went as much as I could,, but I know I missed some spots. Thank you also for the bonus passage by Milan Kundera!  I really enjoyed your inspiring and energetic presentation!

    Like 1
    • Susan Thank you so much, great to know that you enjoyed it! And good planning on your part to have the music in front of you: studies show that taking notes is so helpful partly because you paraphrase into terms that mean the most to you.

      Although it's a little less poetic and more heavy on philosophy and aesthetics, there's another great passage about Op. 111 in a Thomas Mann novel, Dr. Faustus -- a passage which Vadym Kholodenko had to read after his very first lesson with his teacher at Moscow Conservatory, Vera Gornostaeva. 

      Like 1
    • Noah Hardaway thank you so much! I really appreciate the link to the book - I am excited to read it. 😃 

      i was just planning to watch your talk out of interest because I love Beethoven, but you inspired me to start learning it! 

      Like
  • Dear Noah Hardaway, I was not able to watch this session live, but I have just watched it and it completely exceeded my expectations!! Congratulations! You really did a great job, full of passion, energy and good humour. Thank you so much for all your research, enthusiasm and generosity.

    Have you checked the Beethoven Sonatas' edition by pianist Claudio Arrau on Edition Peters? I think you will like some of his suggested fingerings and insights. Arrau (still) is my reference, especially in Beethoven, and his renditions of Op 111 are really faithful, transcendental and meditative. This piece really takes us somewhere else in the space-time continuum.....

    Looking forward to your upcoming videos!!!

    Like 1
    • João -- I'm so grateful, it's terribly kind of you to say all that! Thank you for taking the time to let me know! The piece has taken me on quite a journey, and I have to say, I always aim to find pieces that compel me to a similar kind of loving obsessiveness.

      Yes, I'm familiar with the Arrau edition. It's thought-provoking; I always enjoy seeing how he reveals different aspects of the piece through unique fingering choices. I remember studying it years ago when I was learning Op. 10, No. 2 (the F major), and while I usually found a different path, his ideas made me think harder about what I really wanted to say – a noble pursuit! Do you have a favorite Op. 111 from him? I just came across a magisterial reading from Stockholm, 1960. I also adore Arrau's recordings from the 1930s but I don't imagine he recorded late sonatas at that tender age.

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      • jakopsohn
      • jakopsohn
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Noah Hardaway This was wonderful!! So glad you have made this. And really happy that Arrau was brought up. He had some heavy competitors in Beethoven: Backhaus, Kempff, Solomon Cutner, but after all this years as a pianist, I totally consider that no one is a greater ambassador for Beethoven, than Arrau. I've heard all his recordings of the work and I must say that I agree with you on the Stockholm version. Breathtaking, and those trills in the second movement! It was a speciality of his, and what he does with the work is unearthly. Still I like the complete Philips edition, good in sound and a really powerfull first movement.

       

      I'm thrilled to see a pianist of today that masters it so well, this maybe the greatest and most important of all piano sonatas written. You did splendid!

       

      Cheers from Sweden 

      Like
  • Me too couldn't watch this live, but have watched it now and must say I was pretty much blown away by this presentation! Great work  Noah ! I really liked how you talk about practicing the score. The fingerings, the redistribution, the trills, the pedal, the mental training, and everything involved with understanding the score. Also, the great service with annotated score. I would love more of this! Thank you! 

    Like 1
    • Hi Sindre ! I'm so glad you took the time to listen after-the-fact; your kind words really mean a lot to me! For me, all these details eventually add up and make the piece almost intuitive to perform. I'll make sure I keep including this sort of nitty-gritty info in livestreams and annotated scores! Stay tuned for the annotated second movement.

      Do you like to play late Beethoven?

      Like 1
    • Noah  I have not played late Beethoven yet. I've played some of the early ones, and Pathetique, Moonlight, and Pastorale. I've looked a little bit at Appassionata, and I think I will go threw that one and Waldstein before the late ones. 

      You really had me intrigued with 32, and it's so nice to understand it better and understand Beethoven better. I've been listening to it several times since the "lecture". I hope to make use of your notes when I'm ready for it! 

      Like
  • Noah Hardaway Hi Noah, thanks for the video. I just started to work on OP. 111. I think the link for the annotated score does not work. Can you please give me the link again? Thanks.

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    • Fingers Lan Hi there! So glad you're studying Op. 111– it's a wonder, and I hope my livestream is helpful! Here's the link again, let me know if it works -- and I've also attached it as a file here. Enjoy!

      https://drive.google.com/file/d/1T1Il9kPcHXud2qU39YDYJvLu5RiFYO3i/view

    • Noah Hardaway Thanks a lot. Any plan to release annotated score for II movement? I really like some of your suggestions on how to work on this piece.

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