Tuning your own piano unisons?

Do you tune your own unisons at the piano? Is it a terrible idea or a good one?

A tuner showed me how to do it a few months ago, so I got a tuning lever and mutes, and have been doing it since then. It's a bit of a rabbit hole, though, and sometimes I end up banging my head against unisons instead of actually practicing (haha). It takes me forever to tune unisons when compared to the pros.

I haven't snapped a string yet and I'm getting a little better, so I made a video on the subject. For those with tuning experience and 5 mins to watch it--what important stuff is missing from the video? I'd love additional tips that could make for more efficient DIY tuning.

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    • Timothy
    • Timothy
    • 1 yr ago
    • Reported - view

    Hi Marc,

    I tune my own unisons every now and then.  My piano technician has actually recommended that I do it more often as it is a fairly simple process and one of the first steps to becoming your own tuner.  You're right that you can break a string if you aren't careful, though it's far more likely that you will simply make your pins a little looser which can be a nuisance.

        A couple of things I think need to be mentioned here: 1. The concept of beats- this is what you referenced when you noted the "waaaaa" sound you were getting before you attempted the adjustment.  Technically speaking, when a string is out of tune with its neighbors of the same pitch, it will create an audible (though quite subtle if you've never listened for it before) fluctuation, almost like a wave.  When the string is VERY sharp or flat, this wave/fluctuation sounds faster (waa-waa-waa-waa), almost like a trill or wiggle. When you are getting the string closer to the correct pitch with its neighbors, then the wave/fluctuation will get slower (waaaaaaaa-waaaaaaaa) almost like a slow tremolo or wobble.  The goal is to get that wave/fluctuation (again, it's technically known as a "beat") to disappear.  HOWEVER- and here's why those of us who don't do this for a living can go crazy while trying to achieve this- there is no such thing as a perfectly in sync/in tune unison.  With notes that have three strings tuned to the same pitch, there will always be one string that has to be slightly sharp or flat to cancel out beats that happen at other harmonics.  Most people, though, don't notice this imperceptible difference.  2. The tuning hammer is called a hammer because in the time of harpsichords and clavichords, what looks like a handle for the tool, was actually also a hammer head used to tap loose pins into place. 3. It's a good idea to check your final unison with an octave above or below the note you are working on.  This is assuming your piano is still generally in tune. 4. There are actually free apps available for IOS (and I imagine Android as well, but I'm an iPhone user) that have fairly accurate feedback for tuning.  My technician just showed me one called "PanoTuner" (that's not a typo), that works surprisingly well.  Of course, it isn't as good as the apps professional piano technician's use- those can run from $500-$800- and it can NOT replace a professional tuner, but it does give a visual reference that helps you see how far sharp or flat a string is, and when you are bringing it closer to being "in tune".  5. Sometimes a note is neither flat nor sharp, but simply too bright or mellow.  This means you actually need to voice the hammer, not tune the string.  Being able to hear the difference can be difficult, but this is partly why the concept of "beats" is important to understand.  A brighter note may sound odd or annoying to your ear, but if it's in tune, it won't create a beat. There is also an issue of what are called "false beats" which result from uneven strings, variations in metal composition of the strings, incorrect position on the bridge, etc. but that's often a subtle issue and much more complex than this discussion requires. 

        I thought your video was pretty great actually, but unfortunately your mic doesn't pick up the nuance of when the pitch you are working on is close but not quite perfect.  This could be the speakers on my phone and laptop though.  If you could do a similar video with a split screen showing a tuning app like the one I mentioned above, then it might be even more informative for someone who has never attempted this before. 

    I liked that you mentioned how much of a rabbit hole this is.  I once spent nearly an hour on one note (a trichord) and started to hear things that just weren't there.  Additionally, I weirdly experienced a sudden inability to tell whether I was making a string sharp or flat.  Supposedly, like playing piano, this gets easier with practice.

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    • Timothy thank you for the detailed explanation!

      Like 2
      • Marc M
      • Amateur piano enthusiast
      • Marc_M
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Timothy As Beth said, thank you for your thoughtful response!

      You said, “there is no such thing as a perfectly in sync/in tune unison.  With notes that have three strings tuned to the same pitch, there will always be one string that has to be slightly sharp or flat to cancel out beats that happen at other harmonics.” Very interesting…So, for example, if I tune the right string till it’s about right but hear a beat after removing the mute, I’d then want to tweak the left string till the beat goes away?

      I’ll give Panotuner a try. Would you use it only to tune single strings at a time? And, do you know if it would be possible to tune a whole piano with it? My tuner told me the cheapest app she knows of that would get the harmonics right would be $300…which I might do at some point if I get enough credit card points, haha. 
      P.S. The other funny thing…now I’ve tuned some unisons, I can more easily hear when unisons are bad. I don’t think I noticed them so much in the past—it’s a bit of a curse!

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      • Timothy
      • Timothy
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Marc M I don’t think that the slight adjustment of one string or the other will solve the imperfect unison issue. Rather, I believe it’s just how things work out when we are trying to make a unison sound beat-free.

      I definitely would NOT use the PanoTuner app (or any free app for that matter) to tune the entire piano.  For one, it doesn’t respond well to

      the highest octave of the piano. Second, it doesn’t set a temperament so it can’t help with Pythagorean commas (that’s a fun physics problem associated with tuning to check out). However, for the occasional sour note, it can help you see what’s happening aurally and keep your sanity a bit. If you’re interested in tuning/temperament check out Stewart Isacoff’s book on the subject. It’s really a good read!

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      • Marc M
      • Amateur piano enthusiast
      • Marc_M
      • 11 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Timothy Good to know, thanks! I played with PanoTuner some--seeing the visual representation of what I'm hearing is definitely helpful when I start second-guessing my own ear. It was also amusing to have my kids sing to the app and see what note they're hitting (or not).

      Are you familiar with The PianoMeter app? https://pianometer.com/

      It says the $25 version can tune the whole piano. It automatically calculates a tuning curve for the piano after you play some notes. It's looking promising so far: a couple of my octaves sounded bad (I'm now testing them as you recommended), and when I re-tuned them according to the app's tuning curve, they sounded much better. The strobe wheel display is useful also, as the allow me to see the beats I'm hearing.

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  • I’ve played guitar forever and I’ve noticed this as well.  If I get really focused on getting something ‘perfectly tuned’ I can drive myself crazy and begin to lose the ability to judge pitch at all. 
     

    I think tuning a piano is a good representation of the Dunning Kruger effect. After watching some videos on how to tune and wondering if it was something to try out, I began to see how much I didn’t know I didn’t know.  
     

    And personally, I always want my piano tuned professionally and it would drive me crazy if I messed it up and couldn’t get it back sounding right.  But if you want to go for it, don’t let me stop you.  I think it just takes time and there’s a big learning curve. 

    Like 2
    • Taylor Ma
    • Taylor_Ma
    • 1 yr ago
    • Reported - view

    I tune my unison once I feel a note is out of tune within itself. But if the temperament between notes is already not in harmony, tuning the unison no longer helps. 

    Like 2
  • I do my own touchups, and I’ve had to learn to do more and more, because in my small town, getting a professional tuner come is very challenging.  Before my main one retired, I paid him for an hour of time to teach me how to do this.  I do you use an app on my phone, which is extremely helpful. But it is not perfect. 

    Like 2
    • Dave B
    • Dave_B
    • 11 mths ago
    • Reported - view

    I’ve tuned pianos for over 35 yrs. I have no problem with players tuning unisons and octaves on privately owned (home) pianos. My big concern is to ask permission before touching a piano you don’t own. This situation happens more often than we would expect and creates more issues than we would expect. Always safer to leave pianos alone, especially if they belong to an institution. 

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      • Marc M
      • Amateur piano enthusiast
      • Marc_M
      • 11 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Dave B I'll have to keep this in mind this summer...we rented an Airbnb for the month of July and it's got an upright. I don't yet know if it's in playable condition, but I suspect I'll be sorely tempted to tune the thing!

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  • I tried to tune by myself watching Howard Pianos videos on youtube, but I snapped a string hehehe. Later I did an online tuning course and I developed a much better sense of how to make things, even though getting good demands lots of practice, which is something I still have to put a lot of work.

    From the video you posted I would say these things call my attention:

    - you are making big movements, so you are passing up and down the correct pitch a lot of times. You should make smaller movements so that each time you are getting closer to the pitch, if you make a big movement is closer to starting from zero. The closer you are, the smaller the movements should be.

    - I believe you are using to much of arm movement, which is part of what brings the problem above.

    - For a stable tuning, it is recommended to give a stronger hit on the key (read this with caution), so the tension is spread across the piano. Something like this guy does:

    https://youtu.be/mzoBH-HbKmw

    - just move the hammer when you are listening to the string sound (you did move just once when the key was pressed, but not sounding anymore, so I think you know this and just forgot)

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      • Marc M
      • Amateur piano enthusiast
      • Marc_M
      • 11 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Eduardo Hiramoto Thank you for the notes! I’ll try to remember to lift that damper pedal before messing with mutes. That’s only necessary for the lower-to-mid register dampers that have ridges, right? I imagine the flat dampers would be fine. 
      My tuner tells me that, because my piano is new, some of the pins are super stiff and hard to move. I think the note I was tuning in the video was one of the stiff ones, so the bigger arm motion was needed to get the pin to move. For some of my strings I can’t make them move at all unless I put some muscle into it…which makes the pin move a whole lot and overshoot. Some notes are super easy, in contrast. Tuner says it should get better over time.

      I'm glad you mentioned I should bang the note to make it settle/test stability. I totally forgot that step in the video.

      What did you mean by “just move the hammer” when testing the string’s sound? I’m not sure I’m familiar with that aspect of the technique. Thanks again. 

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    • Marc M I mean to only use the hammer when you are still able listen to the string sound. Whenever you are moving the hammer, the sound is a feedback and guide to you, if you move it when there is no more sound (even if you are still holding the key), you lose it. But I saw that just once, maybe you just forgot.

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      • Marc M
      • Amateur piano enthusiast
      • Marc_M
      • 11 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Eduardo Hiramoto A ha, yes, I see what you mean. It’s true…doing some touch ups the last few days, I’ve found that I do need to hit the notes a bit more often when I’m tuning to get better feedback. Thanks!

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  • I forgot to mention, if you have another mutter, you can use it to mute two strings, so that you can know how it sounds without the beats, it is easy to know that it is not perfectly in tune when comparing one with two strings (though in the beginning don’t be too perfectionist, it is ok to be off, your technique and hearing will develop with time). When putting the mutters, activate the damper (sustain) pedal (to protect the dampers). And I think for grand pianos tuners prefer using the felt mutter (which are bigger) than the rubber ones, but I believe using the rubber ones may be ok.

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