Week 2 Thread: The Era of Haydn and Mozart! 🐴

Welcome to the Main Thread for the third week of "Mozart & Haydn - Music from the 18th Century" challenge! 


This week, we will talk about the different ways composers were trained during the 18th century and how they could achieve such high productivity through schemas and patterns

Look at a different piece by the same composer you are studying and try to compare the music to the new piece you are practicing now.

If you are ready, post a short clip of the patterns you found in your music! One of the ways we grow is through feedback and self-reflection.

Pick a piece from the suggested repertoire according to your level or share any piece written during the 18th century that you have been working on!


If you want to describe your process, feel free to use the following template.

  • Piece(s) you have been working on:
  • Things you found easy:
  • Things you found difficult:

Happy sharing 😍

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  • We went to a piano recital on 10 August given by Eric Lu, an American pianist who won the Leeds Piano Competition in the UK in 2018.  The last American to win the Leeds was Murray Perahia. 

    The festival is tiny.  It's in the Parish Church in Thaxted, Essex.  It attracts top flight performers despite its size.

    Eric played Schubert's Sonata in C major, which was unfinished by Schubert, Schumann's Waldenszenen Op 82, and Chopin's 2nd Piano sonata.  Eric was going to play JS Bach's Toccato in C minor but he had an injury to his right hand so he left this off the programme.  It was amazing to see him deliver the Chopin while resting his right arm down by his side whenever possible throughout the Chopin. 

    He gave an encore, despite the obvious injury.  He played the 'Andante cantible' from Mozart's Sonata X in C major K330.  He played it beautifully but did not announce the name of the piece so I made enquiries from the organisers. 

    They just responded so I downloaded the score.  I have added this to this month's challenge as it will be playable when I have given it sufficient attention.  I am just about getting it off the page.  The F minor section is divine.

    Looking forward to hearing the wonderful jewels that the TB students have been learning for this month's Challenge concert.  You are all so passionate about your music.  It's so lovely to see and hear!          

    Like 4
    • Roy James-Pike Wonderful!

      The concert was probably on my birthday though, on July 10 ;)

      I am looking forward to your performance!!

      Like 1
    • Antonella Di Giulio One day perhaps but not yet, certainly not the Mozart.  It would be sacrilegious! 

      I am returning to the piano late in life.  My first target was to practise all of the major and harmonic minor scales in similar motion, and then I followed that by adding the arpeggios.

      Dominic set out a few weeks ago that routine 'basic' scales practice should include contrary motion and a third apart, and dominant 7ths should be added to the arpeggios.

      The standard of playing on TB is so high that I want to be able to get around the choreography of the piano before sharing my efforts with the world.  To that end, I am now working through all of the additional basics at six scales on three weeks' rotation, three major and three harmonic minors.  It will take me three months to go through all of them.  I am now in the 5th week.  It's going much better than I expected.

      I shall then rotate the 'basics' at six majors and minors over a two week period - covering all the majors and minors in one month.  I shall finish by establishing a routine of half of the majors and harmonic minors each week - so a two week rotation.  I don't have enough time or energy at the moment to attempt to do all of them every day.

      I shall then be in a position to consider sharing my learning steps with others - but not until.  Those are my thoughts a present. 

      My plan is then to turn to introducing double thirds. 

      I have written elsewhere about the pointlessness of practising melodic minor scales, which was a little facetious, but it is true to some extent - say on the flute - although I always did them as part of my flute practise, in any case.  They are the same as the majors on the way up apart from the minor third, and the same as the relative major on the way down, but starting a minor third loser than the relative tonic. 

      Of course, it's a completely different story on the piano - especially with thirds and contrary motion to accomplish!  Although, as we know, Martha Argerich said she didn't bother with practising minor scales [when she had become a phenomenally talented adult after being a precociously talented child!].  No doubt her childhood training included the minors!

      However, Ms Argerich's reasoning included that she preferred to practise the minor sections in her repertoire. 

      This has a lot of sense as most composers mix the two minors along with the modes, so there becomes little point in developing a muscle memory that then becomes a challenge when the music requires something other. 

      However, I shall devise a plan for the melodic minors when the 'basics' have settled down into a routine.

      My reason for writing this essay is to start a discussion for some of us who are returners or even new adult beginners. 

      The usual approach with a child would be to add batches of scales for examination purposes in each progressive grade - through into the teenage years. 

      The learning curve of an adult is much steeper so we can take on more material.  Also, there may not be enough years left to progress as slowly as a child!  

       

      Has anyone developed a scales and technique methodology for adults, who have not completed their training as pianists when they were children?            

      Like 3
    • Roy James-Pike I think that practicing small sections is the most effective way of learning something. I do not use any particular method for scales or exercises, but a standard progression of skills (one-octave major scales in contrary motion, two-octave scales in contrary motion, parallel motion, minor scales- natural at first, and so on)

      You could look into Beringer's Piano exercises: the book has a huge variety of technical exercises in all possible keys.

      But I think that this is a very safe and nice community in which one can share even just one small section of a piece. A long journey begins with the first step.

      Like 2
    • Antonella Di Giulio Thank you again.  You have confirmed that my approach is similar to your own.  I am building up my technique in stages.  I have looked at the whole of the Kuhlau and the Mozart and am going to analyse them for structural elements that they have used and then practise them separately as exercises.

      I shall find the Beringer.

      It's not that I don't think that TB is not a safe space, nor that I am nervous of playing to others.  I am a trained flute player from many years ago, albeit that I still play in public from time to time.  The difference between my facility on the flute and the piano is vast and I need to have more technique under my belt before it would be worthwhile for anyone to hear my renditions.

      This community challenge and your guidance has come at exactly the right time for me.  Also, I was once a sociologist.  It's like being a musician.  It never stops being a part of our lives.

      Like 1
    • Roy James-Pike Antonella Di Giulio Double [triple?] negative...apologies...it's not a Freudian slip...

      Correction... 'It's not that I think that TB is not a safe space...' etc.

      Like 1
    • Roy James-Pike :)

      perfect!

      Like 1
      • Gail Starr
      • Retired MBA
      • Gail_Starr
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Antonella Di Giulio I think that Dominic shared info with us on some wonderful Brahms exercises many months ago?  I was enjoying them and then got too busy to give them the attention they deserve.

      Like 1
      • Gail Starr
      • Retired MBA
      • Gail_Starr
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Antonella Di Giulio Buon compleanno (in un poco di ritardo!)

      Like 1
    • Gail Starr Brahms exercises are challenging :) There are also some exercises by Liszt: you can find them online. 

      Grazie per gli auguri!

      Like 1
      • Gail Starr
      • Retired MBA
      • Gail_Starr
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Antonella Di Giulio Yes, Dominic gave the us the link for the Liszt ones also.  I just need to find the time to practice!

      Like
    • Roy James-Pike 

      in answer to your question about a method for adults who did not learn their scales as a child: I did not practice scales much at all until I was an adult. I then learned all the majors first in fall semester, one new scale per week, Then all the harmonic minors in spring semester. I practiced them in parallel and contrary motion in what I believe Dominic referred to as the “grand scale?” Up two octaves, out two, back in, then up another two then back down similarly. After that crash course I practiced 4 scales a day - 2 majors and their relative minors so I was reviewing them all every week. I continued that for several years until they were pretty well ingrained. 

      Like 1
      • Gail Starr
      • Retired MBA
      • Gail_Starr
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Susan Rogers Yup, we REALLY need to drill those scales to make them part of us.  As a kid in the summers, I would actually put a book on the music stand and read something while I played scales.  That way I could eventually do them automatically.

      Like
    • Qingzhi
    • Qingzhi
    • 1 yr ago
    • Reported - view

    Here is the complete 1st movement of Mozart K311. Sorry for the mistakes.

    One other challenge except the mentioned in week1, is the jumps! I get nervous at those moments.

    Like 7
    • Qingzhi Brava!! This is fantastic! Thanks for sharing!

      Like 1
    • Qingzhi Great playing!

      Like 1
    • Qingzhi very nicely played! 

      Like 1
    • Qingzhi  Great performance! Love your phrasing and very good balance between the hands. 

      Like 1
      • Gail Starr
      • Retired MBA
      • Gail_Starr
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Qingzhi So perfectly Mozart-y!   I love your trills, your phrasing and balance.  Those hand crossings are TOUGH, and you do them beautifully.

      Like
    • Qingzhi Very beautiful performance!

      I was thinking while I was watching the video, that sometimes you give a good direction to the melody, sometimes that directionality seems missing.

      Always keep in mind that music has to go from a starting point to a destination in time, no matter how difficult that passage might be.

      Super great job though!

      Like 1
    • Qingzhi great energy! I really enjoyed that. Beautiful work.

      Like 2
      • Juan Carlos Olite
      • Philosophy teacher and piano lover
      • Juan_Carlos
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Qingzhi Great playing, Qinzhi! Very clear and graceful!

      Like 2
    • Qingzhi really full of energy, really enjoyed that piece! 

      Like
    • Qingzhi That is just lovely! Thank you so much!!!

      Like
  • I did not get much practice this past week as I was under the weather and had little energy. I went ahead and made a video for where I’m at now. The last page is the least secure. I was disappointed that when my tuner came out last week he did not have “grease” with him to fix the squeaking sustain pedal so I am still wincing through every pedal change and it’s distracting as I’m trying to use as little pedal as possible to minimize the squeaks. It is much louder in person than it comes across in the video.

    Like 5
    • Susan Rogers sounds nice! 

      Like 2
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