Bach in March WEEK 1: Practice Updates
Dear Pianists,
Welcome again to Bach in March! Bach is the composer closest to me and I can't wait to share this March with you in practicing Bach. This is the thread where we'll all be posting our biweekly updates for this month's community challenge.
For those who have been here before - you may post video or audio updates just as you did in Discovering Schubert Month! And for those who are new - uploading a video to youtube is often the best way to go! You can then post the youtube link to your video, or embed it directly in your reply.
The introduction and welcome to Bach in March will give you orientation for the community challenge activities, and provide you with a schedule of relevant livestreams, performance opportunities, and repertoire suggestions.
I'm always curious to hear about your practice experience and encourage you to write replies. If you can't think of where to start, here are some questions to jog your mind:
- What piece did you choose? How did you learn about it?
- What's a favorite passage of yours in the piece?
- What's one musical or technical decision you made while practicing your piece?
Feel free to make these updates as short or long as you wish!
Happy Bach Sounds!
Hilda
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What piece did you choose? How did you learn about it?
So I have never really been the biggest Bach fan (gasp sorry!). I some how got away without playing much aside from a few of his two-part inventions when I played as a child. Recently I had started listening to Vikingur Olafsson for his Debussy-Rameau album. After loving that entire album I started listening to some of his other albums. It was there that I became acquainted with the Prelude and Fugue in C Minor from Book I of the WTC. I thought it was such a fun piece that I wanted to give it a go for this challenge.
What's a favorite passage of yours in the piece?
I really like from bar 17 - 20 where is modulates from G minor to C minor and then in bars 22-26 where it modules from C minor to E flat major and then back to C minor. There is so much going on and it so fun to see how me morphs the material.
What's one musical or technical decision you made while practicing your piece?
No pedal at all. While maybe at the end when I want to polish the piece I can add a bit. But I need to figure out how to get all 3 voices correct and not muddled at all. I have also decided to listen to as many interpretations as possible. Since I have not played much Bach I need try rely on other at this point to figure out the "correct" sound.
And now for my rendition of the first 15 bars of the C minor Fugue. BTW I would not recommend listening to this unless you want to have your ears bleed. I think I am an okay pianist but I am finding this piece so mentally taxing. I can barely make it a few bars with my brain getting confused and playing non-sense.
That being said I think it's good for me to record so (hopefully) I can see how much I have improved when it's over.
Again, viewer discretion is advised. You have been warned :)
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Michael Thank you so very much for sharing this! I am so encouraged to keep practicing and maybe someday I will be as brave as you and submit something!
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hello everyone, just uploaded this. Not too sure if this is the correct thread for me to do so. Feel free to listen and give any constructive feedback.
Decided to choose this piece for a start, as I felt that, this piece has a calming effect for me. I hope that you guys could accept of my interpretation on this piece. It's a simple piece, yet, I do find it's hard to mastering in all the aspect, i.e tone and its evenness especially.
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CK Love it, CK!!
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CK Exquisite! Love it!
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CK Beautiful, CK!
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CK This sounds fantastic!
you're doing great with tone and evenness!
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CK really like this, it sounds lovely!
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Brother Will Green thanks.
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Priscilla A Lee thankyou
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So many of us working on Bach C minor Partita Teresa McGlone MTpiano Shaw-Jiun Wang Maybe between the four of us we can split the whole suite! How are you all choosing tempi?
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Hilda Huang I am working on Bach C minor preclude and fugue
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Hilda Huang Love this Partita. It’s on my to do list. Hoping to get some good ideas listening to all of you.
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Great idea, Hilda! I’m working on the first part “sinfonia” of Partita #2. Working up on a faster tempo for the later portion of the sinfonia has been my main focus these days. Do we need a metronome reading maybe?
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I think tempo for the Capriccio should match the character of the piece. Its robust nature (I think) calls for a fast tempo. Right now, I am practicing it 105 to the quarter but I think it probably should be more like 110+? The Rondeaux seems more playful....I think it should be quick, but I am open to suggestion.
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I decided to work on Prelude and Fugue in c minor from WTC 1 (wohoo, my first fugue ever, had to work hard to earn it after 30 years of break regarding my friendship with the piano!).
No recording yet since I’m only half way through, but so far I’m satisfied how it goes. I find it amusing to play staccato for practice, and so far no trouble with voicing in the fugue, but let’s see how the second part will go.
Prelude is fine, now I have to memorize it and work on voicing and tempo. And to forget about making it perfect before finding courage to post the recording
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I've been working on the Prelude and Fugue VII in E Flat, Well Tempered Clavier Book I, BWV 852. Every time I work on it (which is quite a bit) I learn something new about it. It's like a fractal- the closer you look, the more you see! It's very challenging for me, particularly the trills in the fugue- I have decided, at least for now, to play the trills on every statement of the subject. This will challenge me to improve my trills particularly in awkward places (see measure 27, subject in the bass, for example, where I'm trying to do a nasty 3-4 trill in the left hand and picking up the e flat and d with the thumb of the left hand-ugh). My favorite parts are the chromatic lines present at the end of both the prelude and the fugue. Anyway, I hope to upload a video of my work in progress soon. More importantly, thank you Hilda for your guidance and encouragement!!
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GerryM I spoke with my sister this morning on the phone telling her I was working on a piece for the Tonebase "Bach Challenge". I told her it was difficult and often didn't go as I expected. She said it sounds like a "deBachle" :-). I'll see myself out...
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GerryM Hi Gerrry, I like that pun, do you mind if I use it? I’ll give your sister credit.
More pertinent, I don’t have my BWV numbers handy, but wondered whether you were talking about the E flat from book one? I have worked on that same fugue, with the same objective of playing the trills everywhere as Either discipline, or punishment, depending on how you want to look at it.
There are a couple of places where I have to trade the trills off between two hands, and I wonder whether they are the same places that you were talking about
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Peter Golemme Hi Gerry, I wrote the prior post on the commuter train without my score in front of me. It looks like you're talking about BWV 852, Book I, Eb Major. This is not the one where I have to trade off the trills between hands -- that comes elsewhere in the WTC. What I find difficult here (besides the whole piece!) appears in mm 7 and 21 of the Fugue -- where the left hand is trying to manage the trill but then has to help out the RH by throwing in the third 16th note of the middle voice. ARGHH!
Regarding the trills, here are 2 issues that I wonder about how other pianists have managed:
1. do you start the trill on the main note or the upper note? I believe that normally they are supposed to start on the upper note, but in this piece I start the trills on the main (lower ) note, taking my cue from my Dover edition's "Note on Ornamentation" [no pun intended I'm sure]: "whenever possible, the beginning of the ornament does not repeat the preceding note". (I also find it easier in this case, which might have biased my decision!).
2. In addition to trilling in the same place at every entrance of the subject, i was trying to add an after beat at the end of each trill. How about you -- afterbeat or no afterbeat? I found when I sped up the piece that this was almost impossible for me to maintain, so I dropped the afterbeat and just do the straight trill. I also noticed that virtually no pianist in my 12 or so copies of the WTC plays an afterbeat there. still, I would have liked to have been able to do it if I could have pulled it off -- i thought it sounded really cool.
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Peter Golemme Hi Peter, yes you are welcome to use the pun at your own risk! I apologize I provided the incorrect BWV number, it is 852. I corrected it above. Currently I'm starting the trills on the upper note using six note trills (the first one D-C-D-C-D-C leading to the Bb), but I have vacillated a lot about this. I think you can certainly make a good case for starting the trills on the lower note for two reasons: 1. The upper note was just stated (it was the note before the trill). One respected teacher of mine felt it might be redundant to start a trill on the upper note if that note was just played. The second is a point brought up by Dominic (thank you Dominic!) in one of his sessions- by starting on the upper note you may be creating unwanted appoggiaturas with associated dissonances. That certainly happens in this piece, although I think they sound OK at quarter note = 86 BPM, which is the tempo I'm at now. Can you explain the "back beat" a little more- is that a turn at the end of the trill?
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GerryM Yes, the 'afterbeat' I referred to (not sure that that is the correct technical term) would be a little turn at the end, so in the trill you are talking about above, it would be a C-Bb-C at the very end just before the next note (the Bb). I like the tempo 86 BPM for this piece. In my learning (as further self-discipline/punishment), I try to get up to the tempos Tovey recommends in my Dover edition, before settling on my own choice. But I can't always get there. He recommends 104 for this piece which I think is a little too fast (or maybe that's just sour grapes because I can't play it that fast!). But the beautiful patterns in this particular fugue should sound graceful and elegant IMO, & if I try to speed it up much more than 86 or so, it begins to sound more like a mad & desperate scramble to reach the downbeat before the Metronome beats me to it! But then of course you hear some masterful players effortlessly romp through this at much faster tempos. oh well. I'm content if I can convey some semblance of grace and elegance in the 86-90 range. Grace, elegance, cheerfulness, exuberance. that's what this particular fugue conveys to me. good luck with your practicing, hope to hear a sample of your playing it when you're ready....
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Peter Golemme when I was working on this fugue a few months ago, I also tried to add the nachtschlag (what you're calling the afterbeat). I started the trills on the note because they are approached from the note above, and basically did only an inverted mordent (note-up-note), lining up the nachtschlag with the last 16th of the beat. But I didn't get it up to much of a tempo.
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Peter Golemme Yes I'm with you! Right now if I try to play it faster than about 86, it starts sounding like a mad race between my left hand, right hand, and metronome, with the metronome winning most of the time. Thanks for explaining the back-beat- I like that idea as well. Andras Schiff, in an old recording, starts off on the lower note and places a turn at the end, at least for the first trill. Then the others he seems to vary his approach. I like his first trill, but I wish he had been consistent throughout the piece with it. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkybC_k5GiQ. Anyway, yes I'll see if I can get the fugue recorded over the next couple weeks. I am learning a lot about my own playing by video recording, and this group has given me the push to do it. I hope to hear your playing soon as well! Have fun...
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GerryM Peter Golemme This is a great discussion - I think that the contemporary consensus is that trills in bach's time started on the upper note with the upper note beginning on the beat and not before the beat. There are some exceptions: for example if the trilled note is tied from the note before. But your considerations about speed are so important. It's not at all obvious how many times to trill and I think sometimes it's quite difficult to do many shakes, especially when there's a faster tempo. And repeating a note is difficult at speed. And 3-4 - gosh jolly darn that's difficult!
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Hilda Huang Thank you for the valuable info, and thank you for the empathy about the 3-4 trill!
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